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In Avot D'Rabbi Nathan 14:6 it says:

"כשיצאו מלפניו הוא אמר אלך לדמסית למקום יפה ומים יפים ונאים והם אמרו נלך ליבנה למקום שתלמידי חכמים מרובים אוהבים את התורה הוא שהלך לדמסית למקום יפה ומים יפים ונאים נתמעט שמו בתורה הם שהלכו ליבנה למקום שת״ח מרובים ואוהבים את התורה נתגדל שמם בתורה."
"When they all left, [Rabbi Elazar ben Arach] said: I am going to Damasit, a beautiful place with good, sweet water. They said: We will go to Yavneh, a place where there is an abundance of scholars who love the Torah. So he went to Damasit, the beautiful place with good, sweet water, and his reputation in Torah study diminished. And they went to Yavneh, the place where there was an abundance of scholars who all loved the Torah, and their reputations in Torah study grew."

Variants of this story appear in Shabbat 147b and Kohelet Rabbah 7:7.

On the other hand, in Avot 1:11 it says:

"אַבְטַלְיוֹן אוֹמֵר, חֲכָמִים, הִזָּהֲרוּ בְדִבְרֵיכֶם, שֶׁמָּא תָחוּבוּ חוֹבַת גָּלוּת וְתִגְלוּ לִמְקוֹם מַיִם הָרָעִים, וְיִשְׁתּוּ הַתַּלְמִידִים הַבָּאִים אַחֲרֵיכֶם וְיָמוּתוּ, וְנִמְצָא שֵׁם שָׁמַיִם מִתְחַלֵּל"
"Abtalion used to say: Sages be careful with your words, lest you incur the penalty of exile, and be carried off to a place of evil waters, and the disciples who follow you drink and die, and thus the name of heaven becomes profaned."

These terms seem to be mirror-opposites, yet ironically REb"A, despite going to a place of מים טובים, ended up forgetting his Torah knowledge. Is there indeed a connection between the two sources? Does the second source somehow serve to explain what happened to REb"A?

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  • I assume the difference is between extra nice water, neutral water like Yavneh and most places, and really bad water.
    – N.T.
    Commented Jun 13, 2022 at 6:56
  • @N.T. Sounds too abstract. What does that mean? There were batei midrash in all sorts of places.
    – Harel13
    Commented Jun 13, 2022 at 7:22
  • I do not think it is about the water. I think it is a metaphor for the bad atmosphere the people were in, when in Damasit. The Avnei Derech (אלחנן נפתלי פרינץ) ( p. 130 אבני דרך - ב) explains that when one is in a place where there is no atmosphere for a Torah live, in a place where there is no Beit Midrash, where the pleasures of the world increases.... then it is difficult to grow in Torah.
    – Shmuel
    Commented Jun 13, 2022 at 8:05
  • I mean there is a spectrum. It's not black or white.
    – N.T.
    Commented Jun 13, 2022 at 16:44

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