I thought I heard that its ok to use a coffee pot in a non-kosher home, but I could be mistaken. Does anyone know?
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Closed per meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/a/314/2 . I recommend that you consult your Rabbi for practical guidance and use this site for general information, including to inform the conversation with your Rabbi.– Isaac Moses ♦Commented Dec 21, 2011 at 15:55
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3I disagree that this is too localized, the question has broad application and not infrequently encountered...unless the concern is that it is being asked l'maaseh.– YirmeyahuCommented Dec 21, 2011 at 15:57
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1@Yirmeyahu, that is precisely the concern. See the meta post I linked. The close reasons the SE engine gives us to pick from don't always exactly express the actual reason for closing, which is why I left a comment as well.– Isaac Moses ♦Commented Dec 21, 2011 at 16:17
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But @IsaacMoses, how does any Halachah question (eg., judaism.stackexchange.com/q/11700/5) not fit that description? The current revision does not ask, "Hey, I'm at a non-Kosher home right now and they offered me coffee; can I drink it?" Can we reopen it?– Seth JCommented Dec 21, 2011 at 16:30
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1@SethJ, Yes, given the current revision. The reason I closed it instead of just editing it myself initially is that I want to make it clear that we're serious about this "this site is not your Rabbi" concept. It's edited now to be a request for general information instead of a request for personal guidance, and I hope that the asker will treat it as such.– Isaac Moses ♦Commented Dec 21, 2011 at 16:33
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3 Answers
See the Aruch HaShulchan 325:21 where he finds a reason to permit Jews to drink tea in the homes of their non-Jewish neighbors on Shabbos, even when the non-Jew prepares the tea on Shabbos. In particular when a samovar is used, he finds even more reason to be lenient about this practice. So it seems the common practice was to drink tea in non-Jewish homes (even on Shabbos!) and presumably the same would apply for coffee.
answered Dec 21, 2011 at 18:20
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1This was in the days before dishwashers and running water. People would not wash their dishes much - just rinse them, and possibly scrub with sand. These days the dishes are washed together with non kosher dishes (i.e. non kosher food residue). A metal samovar would be treif. A glass dish might be ok (if you hold that way, not all do), but you would have to be very careful about washing it - and most coffee pots that I have seen are not sparkling clean. Someone swipes a (treif) sponge over it, there is some residue and it's treif. It might be batel, but don't rely on that lechatchila.– ArielCommented Dec 21, 2011 at 20:57
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@Ariel, I don't think that is accurate. The mechaber talks about putting meat and dairy dishes in the same kli rishon to clean them. Also, we pasken that kelim of non-Jews have a chazaka of being clean (not so by Jews).– YDKCommented Dec 21, 2011 at 22:39
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@YDK If I'm not mistaken Ashkenazim don't Pasken like the MeHaber wrt washing in the same Keli Rishon. Also, does the cleanliness apply to Basar BeHalav? I know of it only in context of salting/washing meat.– Seth JCommented Jan 12, 2012 at 15:08
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1@SethJ, my comment about dish-washing was not halachic, I was refuting Ariel's distinction that things were not as bad prior to running water. People still used hot water- a kli rishon, to clean multiple dishes. Re: cleanliness, much of the heter of eating from non-jewish establishments relied on a chazaka that their kelim were clean and not bnei yoman. This is not true by Jews for basar b'chalav. I'll try to look up the source at some point.– YDKCommented Jan 12, 2012 at 17:51
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Although I cannot give sources, I can give reasoning to be able to use it.
- Plain coffee beans are kosher. Even if the beans were flavored, my Rav told me that the vast majority of flavors in America are kosher (even grape!) and are not a concern- certainly after the fact.
- It is far-fetched that anyone used the carafe for anything but coffee, and on the off-chance they did, that product was probably kosher even if it didn't have a hechsher (take your pick of chazaka or sfeik sfeika)
- It is pretty much impossible to render something treif in a sink. Do you know if the water was hot? Is the water running through the pipe of a halachik status to cause a problem (irui kli rishon? Even if it does, can it treif up the carafe (machnis and motzi at the same time)? Was there even anything non-kosher touching the carafe? Soap makes the tranferring food taste bad (taam lifgam). Can glass even become not kosher?
Dishwashers are more complex, though I think there is enough to mitigate the concern there as well. But since you should ask your rav anyway, this information is for you to be informed when you ask.
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1Why stop at coffee? By your criteria you can eat almost anything in a non kosher kitchen as long as the ingredients are kosher. You are not supposed to rely on batel lechatchila.– ArielCommented Dec 21, 2011 at 20:44
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1We're not talking about a treif pot, this is a coffee pot used for coffee. I'm just saying that it's unnecessary to make up a scenario where there may have been problems since there are many mitigating factors.– YDKCommented Dec 21, 2011 at 22:30
I don't see why this person's coffee pot is any worse than the coffee pots/carafes in non-kosher restaurants. It is widely accepted that one may buy coffee in non-kosher restaurants.
I am aware that the CRC presented some issues with Starbucks washing procedures leading them to forbid the purchase of coffee if food is also sold there. If the CRC meant this to apply not only to Starbucks in particular, but to restaurants in general, then it can be considered a machloket CRC-OU.
