If sleeping suffices for "ad d'lo yada", why drink?

Question

The Shulchan Aruch (OC 695:2) writes:

One must become drunk on Purim until he doesn't know the difference between "arur Haman" and "baruch Mord'chay".

The Rama (ad loc.) adds:

But some say that he need not get so drunk: rather, he should drink more than his custom and sleep; because he's sleeping, he doesn't know the difference between "arur Haman" and "baruch Mord'chay".

One who does much or little — so long as he directs his heart to heaven!

On the Rama's words "and sleep; because he's sleeping, etc.", Mishna B'rura comments:

That's what's seemly to do.

(All translations are my own.) If one follows this ruling, that sleep is a way — the appropriate way! — to fulfill the "not know the difference" rule, why does one need to drink at all? Is it simply to increase the likelihood he'll fall asleep? If so, can a tired person just lie down without drinking?

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EDIT to clarify my question, since I am dissatisfied with the answers thus far given:

There is certainly an idea of drinking wine on Purim to commemorate the miracles that took place through the medium of drinking wine. There is, on the other hand, an idea of la yada, of not knowing the difference between "arur Haman" and "baruch Mord'chay". The Rama explicitly severs the strong connection between these implied by the g'mara's statement "must get drunk on Purim until he doesn't know...": the Rama says that one need not get so drunk as to satisfy "la yada"! (This seems to directly contradict the g'mara.) It is sufficient, he writes, to drink a bit and fall asleep and, by sleeping, satisfy "la yada". There's thus a domino effect, according to the Rama: one drinks sufficiently to sleep, and sleeps sufficiently to "la yada". Yet drunkenness (which is what the g'mara speaks of) needn't lead to "la yada": in fact, one needn't get drunk at all! So the g'mara's requirement "to get drunk until he doesn't know..." is gone. Rama doesn't hold of it. Why, then, does he require drinking to lead to sleep? If the "to get drunk until he doesn't know..." is gone, why isn't it sufficient to simply "doesn't know" (e.g., by sleeping without drinking) (and drink as a separate thing, perhaps after sleeping, to commemorate the miracles)?

Answer 1

Maybe the reason to fall asleep specifically through the process of drinking wine is to remember the miracle which was done through wine at the different wine parties in the Book of Esther as outlined here: Can you use Liquor to fulfill Ad Dlo Yoda?

EDIT: I challenge your assumption that the two rules are separated. The Rambam writes in Megillah 2:15:

`כיצד חובת סעודה זו--שיאכל בשר ויתקן סעודה נאה, כפי אשר תמצא ידו; ושותה יין, עד שישתכר ויירדם בשכרות.
What is the nature of the obligation of this meal? One should eat meat and fix up a nice meal, as much as his means allow. And he should drink wine until he gets drunk and falls asleep in his drunkardness. (my translation)

The Rambam clearly connects the two rules. Note that the Rambam does not mention the classic rule of differentiating between Haman and Mordechai. Likely he holds a similar line of reasoning as the Rama (that the way one is supposed to accomplish Lo Yada is through a drunken sleep) or else he views that rule as aggadic in nature. Either way, we see that the two rules are not split. Why would that be? See my answer above and comments below.

Answer 2

I'll go you one better - if the purpose is to not know the difference between "arur Haman" and *"baruch Mordechai", why bother drinking or sleeping at all?

Of course, I'm not referring to the highly intelligent community that patronizes this site, but do you really think that most of the rest of us really know the difference while we're sober?

This is a very subtle difference - it's not about getting confused between "which is the good guy and which is the bad guy", it's about realizing that Haman being cursed is not equivalent to Mordechai being blessed, and sometimes it's hard to tell which is which.

Or, in a more general phraseology, the downfall of your enemy is not sufficient for your own success.

I think it really comes back to:

Al tismach b'nfol oyvecha (and the continuation...)

Does the average Jew really know the difference, and remember this throughout his daily life, even without getting drunk / sleeping? (Or am I just being too cynical again?)

Answer 3

The Mitzvah isn't to pass out or even to space out. The Mitzvah is one of Simhah. The Gemara, in my opinion, is simply saying that the revelry ought to be great. Asked to quantify it, it just went for the most extreme. I think it is, essentially, a license to get totally hammered. Not as a Mitzvah in and of itself, but rather as a function, or a measure, of how celebratory one's party atmosphere should be. We get dragged into so much ritual on other holidays, and here, I think, the Gemara is just saying to let it all hang loose. I would equate it to the dancing at a wedding. I always tell people, "You haven't been to a fun wedding until you've been to an Orthodox Jewish wedding." I explain that we are so conservative the rest of the time, that this is our rare opportunity to just let loose, so we go all out. Similarly, I think, the Gemara wants us to go all out and have a good time on Purim.

I do not think, however, that this contradicts the attempts, going back centuries now, to get people to dial it back a little (or even a lot). Some of the same people who might make Frum weddings awesome make Purim an embarrassment. People seem to know how to really rock a wedding hall without puking on the bride (and, yes, they do get drunk at weddings). Yet, for some reason, on Purim, they drink to the point that not only can't they tell between Baruch Mordechai and Arur Haman, but they can't tell between the toilet bowl and the Rebbitzen's lap, and they drink not to the point of confusion, but well beyond that to the point of illness and even alcohol poisoning. That, I think, is where Gedolim throughout the ages have been trying to set limits, and if only people celebrating knew how to properly direct their Simhah, then oddly Halahic-sounding, letter-of-the-law type of solutions, like taking a nap, which are themselves analyzed to a ridiculous degree, would be unnecessary.

I'm not trying to negate sleeping as a solution, and I have employed it myself on occasion. But I'm trying to refocus the discussion where I think it needs to be. Forgive me if I sound a bit presumptuous.

Answer 4

We drink wine on Purim because that is what got Acheshvarush drunk and caused him to Execute Vashti, thus starting the whole chain of events which saved the Jewish people.

Can't remember the source, but I'm guessing it was my chabad rabbi in 5th grade.

Answer 5

The Rambam and Rama apparently hold that sleep is not a replacement to the gemara's directions, but rather the Gemara's actual intent. THis can be infered from the fact the Rambam almost never states laws from outside the Gemara. Where did he get this bit about sleep from? He evidently read it into the Gemara. The Rama in DM connects his ruling to Rambam's writing "so is implied by the Rambam" The question that these two things; drinking and sleeping seem independent becomes a question the Gemara (acc. to Rambam and Rama's conception) rather than a question on them. According to this reading of the Gemara however the ad in ad dlo yada indicates that the sleep does need to follow the drinking. One possible reason why perhaps they want us to sleep is to keep us out of truble (see maaseh rokeach to Rambam hil. megillah 2:15). Noteworthy is that the Maharam of Rothenberg writes the same thing as Rambam in a responsum (MHK Responsa).

Answer 6

The Rama writes in his explanation on the Megilla (Mechir Yayin 9:19) that one has to get drunk to the level of Lot that he is exempt if he sins.

נראה לי בדרך הפשט כי מאחר שמצות פורים לשתות ולשמוח ואי אפשר שלא ישתה על כן ישתה הרבה מאד שיגיע לשכרותו של לוט שאז פטור אף אם יחטא ויעבור על איזה עבירות כי באונס הוא, אבל אם לא ישתה כל כך הרבה, ויעבור עבירות חייב כאלו לא שתה כלל כאמרם שכור שהרג נהרג אם לא שהגיע לשכרותו של לוט ולזה ישתה הרבה עד שלא ידע בין עונש לשכר המגיע לצדיק ולרשע כמו שאירע להמן ומרדכי ומעתה אינו מזיק כלל.

If this is the same opinion as what he writes in the Shulhan Aruch, he is saying you may fulfill the mitzvah of getting drunk by falling asleep from the alcohol and at that point you are also exempt from mitzvot (but not sins that you could have been careful about before sleep, see Hovel u'Mazik 1:11).