1

I've had this question for a while, but saw someone else ask it this year:

The Talmud [Shabbat 88a] explains that God lifted Sinai above the heads of the Jewish People and coerced them into accepting the Torah.

But think about the image for a moment. If the Jewish People were standing around Mount Sinai and God then lifted up the mountain—nobody would be underneath it.

A homiletic answer is given there, but I want real answers, please!

This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.

11
  • If you happen to have actual real answers, you can post them as comments here. Commented Mar 11 at 19:53
  • I would say another interesting thing is that the midrash says Gd made the mountain like a barrel, but a barrel presumably is hollow, so if so then it seems Gd would just be covering them, not crushing them Commented Mar 11 at 23:13
  • Not quite - he said he held it over their head like a barrel. But at the end of the day, the mountain is solid so you can't read too much into the barrel simile. If you told me that you dropped a bowling ball on me like a ton of bricks, that doesn't mean the bowling ball is cubical. Commented Mar 12 at 6:45
  • Well, I saw that it WASN’T a threat, but Hashem was in a way “marrying us to him and the Torah”, and Har Sinai was the chuppah.
    – user34750
    Commented Mar 12 at 11:04
  • I also thought that the unnecessary description as a barrel makes it sound like that's part of the point. He wasn't so much threatening to crush them, as to just bury them, inside the mountain.
    – MichoelR
    Commented Mar 12 at 11:41

5 Answers 5

3

R' Munroe (shu"t xkcd, siman 57) was once asked in an unrelated question what would happen if you lifted and then dropped Denali.

Even lifting it one inch would result in the following:

If your magical mountain-cutter put air in the space where the rock used to be, you should avoid standing near the crack when it falls. The air will come jetting out from the closing crack, spraying rocks and dust at speeds approaching, or even—thanks to some fun heat-related effects—exceeding, Mach 1.

Sounds like if that happened at Sinai, that would be bad news for the Jews.

And it gets worse; here's what happens at 5 km:

The jolt to the ground would be as violent as in a magnitude 7 earthquake. There wouldn't exactly be a crater, but the mountain would definitely not be shaped like it used to be. The pressure from the impact would be high enough to produce some unusual geologic structures.

Sounds like anything nearby would suffer literally from שָׁם תְּהֵא קְבוּרַתְכֶם to me...

0
2

The speed and force of the uprooting caused a vacuum to occur in the space where the mount had been, sucking all the people around the site into the space under the now-hanging mountain.

1

Perhaps instead of dropping it back down, Hashem moved it over part of the camp.

While he couldn't get the majority of the camp this way if they were evenly distributed around the mountain (source: geometry), it could be that it was hung over some recalcitrant tribes.

This answers the famous question of Tosfos and others of how this Gemara squares with the one נעשה ונשמע; the gemaras are talking about recalcitrant and non-recalcitrant tribes, respectively. (Alternatively, the former Gemera is attributed to everyone, but because כל ישראל ערבים זה לזה.)

And the reason why the former Gemara says the coercion was no longer true after the Purim story could be for one of two reasons:

  • It had been suspended over (some of) the Ten Tribes, and they were out of the picture by the time of the Purim story, leaving only those who had originally accepted the Torah.
  • Alternatively, while they used to be a מיעוט ניכר, by the time of the Purim story everyone was מפוזר ומפורד, so they were no longer ניכר and בטל to the רוב.
1
  • 1
    He probably held it over the 13th and 14th tribes who complained the most, and said, "If I hear one more word..." He couldn't even get the sentence out before He let it go. That's why there are only 12 tribes.
    – user34203
    Commented Mar 13 at 3:07
-1

Even if it wasn't directly over them it was a great threat. Imagine if hashem dropped the mountain right next to them. It would cause a big earthquake and potentially wipe them out.

-3

Rabbi AI:

To address this inquiry, let's first acknowledge that the narrative operates within the realm of theological metaphor and is not meant to be understood literally in terms of physical laws. However, for the sake of engaging with the question in a mathematical and logical context, we can explore the theoretical constructs that might allow for such a scenario, purely as an intellectual exercise.

Imagining the Scenario Mathematically

Non-Euclidean Geometry: In a non-Euclidean space, such as on the surface of a sphere or in a curved space-time model (as in General Relativity), the concepts of "above" and "underneath" can have different implications than in flat, Euclidean space. For instance, in spherical geometry, moving in a straight line in any direction eventually brings you back to your starting point, which could, in a very loose and metaphorical sense, allow for an interpretation where "lifting" something above could also envelop the space around it.

Multidimensional Spaces: If we consider higher-dimensional spaces, beyond the three spatial dimensions we experience, it's conceivable to imagine configurations where an object can be both "above" and encompassing an area simultaneously, from the perspective of lower-dimensional beings. This, of course, ventures far into the realm of theoretical physics and higher-dimensional mathematics.

Symbolic Representation: From a logical standpoint, the act of "lifting Sinai above the heads" can be interpreted symbolically as an overwhelming presence or undeniable force, rather than a physical lifting. This would align more closely with the interpretive, homiletic approaches traditionally taken by scholars when engaging with such texts.

Conclusion

While the literal image of God lifting Mount Sinai above the Jewish people poses logical and spatial challenges, engaging with the narrative through the lenses of metaphor, symbolic representation, and theoretical constructs allows for a rich exploration of its meanings. The passage is best understood within its theological and metaphysical context, where the physical laws as we understand them do not strictly apply. Nonetheless, approaching this from a mathematical and logical perspective offers an interesting exercise in theoretical reasoning, even though it diverges from the intent and interpretation within Jewish tradition and scholarship.

4
  • If people wanted an AI answer they would use an AI
    – Esther
    Commented Mar 12 at 14:25
  • @Esther It wasn't any old AI, it was a GPT I cooked up to simulate an Oxon maths professor. You wouldn't get that response from ChatGPT 4.
    – The GRAPKE
    Commented Mar 12 at 14:48
  • That's a lot of big words from a chatbot. When it talks to me, it just asks if I want option 1 or 2. Does it need to go through an Orthodox conversion in order to render halachic decisions? Who witnesses the mikvah? I'm just asking...
    – user34203
    Commented Mar 13 at 3:13
  • @PaulWalker Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach once told a radio reporter in Germany that when he was young he asked his mother if the lions in the zoo were Jewish. He said that he know saw that they weren't. The reported asked him how he knew, he replied from the fact that they were still there.
    – The GRAPKE
    Commented Mar 13 at 10:01

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .