Does one have to take a Midrash/Aggadah literally?
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2is there a difference between midrash and aggadah? cf: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/15447/…– Adam MoshehCommented Mar 29, 2012 at 19:35
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See: judaism.stackexchange.com/a/53351/8775 regarding whether one must accept a Midrash / Aggadah at all.– mevaqeshCommented Oct 13, 2016 at 2:56
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it would be important to note that the word "literally" and "pshat" are not necessarily the same thing. So if someone were to say we should accept the "pshat" of every medrish and aggaditah they wouldn't necessarily be saying the meaning behind each of them is "literal"– Laser123Commented Mar 29, 2017 at 16:55
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Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76804/…– SAHCommented Jan 4, 2018 at 20:35
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1Judging from all the answers here, it seems you perhaps are not allowed to take Midrashim literally - but you should take them seriously.– MichoelRCommented Feb 5, 2023 at 21:35
9 Answers
The problem with how we read Aggada today is that our approach, instead of being idiomatic, is idiotic.
-- Rabbi Moshe Hauer.
From the Rambam's commentary to the last chapter of Sanhedrin:
There are three categories of people with regards to interpreting Aggada.
The first category take everything literally and teach it as such, going to the masses and translating the (Aggada-heavy) final chapter of Sanhedrin without any explanation whatsoever, and I wish they would just keep quiet, as anyone bearing any intelligence whatsoever could not follow this; for instance, when the Talmud states that the finest cakes and tapestries will grow from the land of Israel in the future. If we spoke of a man for whom his business is booming and he doesn't have to work hard, we would say "everything is made for him", so too this expression, describing the abundance, ease, and quality of production that Israel shall have in the future.
The second category assumes that Chazal were fools. Though they fail to recognize all the material of tremendous human value in the Talmud.
The third category, and there are so few individuals here that they barely constitute a category, is those who assume Chazal were wise and moderate, and seek whatever explanation to an Aggada fits accordingly.
Does that answer your question?
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8That is a pretty funny quote from Rabbi Hauer. I guess what it lacks in diplomacy it makes up for in creativity.– RCWCommented Nov 19, 2010 at 6:19
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3Yes. The Rabbi Hauer quote is from a podcast of his on Maharal, in fact.– ShalomCommented Nov 19, 2010 at 14:04
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2@user4784 The Gra in his commentaries on Mishlei 1:3 says that it is the way of Chachamim to speak in non-literal parables and allegories.– LoewianCommented Feb 6, 2015 at 4:21
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2@user4784 What do you mean halacha is like the Gra, and by what means do you choose between him and Rambam. Even if this were an issue of psak, are you a posek?– mevaqeshCommented Feb 11, 2015 at 18:00
Here are some additional sources: אין מקשין על האגדה We do not ask questions regarding Aggada. Various sources expressing this idea: (Rashba Megillah 15a) (R' Saadia Gaon, R' Hai Gaon, Otzar HaGeonim, Chagiga 13; Otzar HaGeonim, Pesach, 3a) (Meiri, Magen Avot 1) (Shiltei Giborim, Avoda Zara, 6a) (Ramban in his Disputation, also brought in responsa Chatam Sofer 17) (Ramban Yevamot 71:) (Ritva, Shabbat 75:) (Rabbeinu Chananel, Otzar Geonim, Respona 50)
Rav Hai Gaon, in a more wordy responsa, "הוו יודעים כי דברי אגדה לא כשמועה הם, אלא כל אחד דורש מה שעלה על לבו בגון אפשר, ויש לומר לא דבר חתוך.. לפיכך אין סומכין עליהם.. ואומדנא נינהו." "We know that the words of Aggada are not like halacha; rather, everyone darshans whatever comes to his mind, like saying "It could be", "It's possible"; these are not exacts things... therefore we are not to rely upon them... they are merely estimations" (R' Hai Gaon, Otzar HaGeonim, Chagiga 13)
Rabbi Shmuel HaNagid on his introduction to Talmud in Berachot: "כל פרוש שיבא בגמרא על שום ענין שלא יהיה מצוה זוהי הגדה ואין לך ללמוד ממנה אלא מה שיעלה על הדעת.. מה שפרשו בפסוקים כל אחד כפי מה שנזדמן לו ומה שראה בדעתו ולפי מה שיעלה על הדעת מן הפרושים האלו לומדין אותם והשאר אין סומכין עליהם". "Any commentary that comes in the Gemara that is not a mitzvah is called Aggadah, and you shouldn't learn anything from it except for what comes to mind... their explanations on passages consist of what came to mind for each scholar and whatever seems reasonable we should learn from them, but the rest we do not need to rely upon them."
Rambam "כל אותן הדברים דברי הגדה ואין מקשין בהגדה וכי דברי קבלה הן או מילי דסברא אלא כל אחד ואחד מעיין בפירושן כפי מה שיראה לו, בו ואין בזה לא דברי קבלה ולא אסור ולא מותר ולא דין מן הדינין, ולפיכך אין מקשין בהן, ושמא תאמר לי, כמו שיאמרו רבים: וכי דברים שבתלמוד אתה קורא הגדה? כן! כל אלו הדברים וכיוצא בהן הגדה הן בעניינם, בין שהיו כתובין בתלמוד בין שהיו כתובין בספרי דרשות בין שהיו כתובין בספרי הגדה", (אגרות הרמב"ם לר' פנחס הדיין´)." "All of these things are Aggada, and regarding Aggada we do not ask questions. Are these words transmitted from Moshe? or rather personal thoughts of each scholar? - rather, everyone should study the explanations and according to what seems reasonable he should accept, and these are not 'divrei kabbala' (transmitted from Moshe), and not prohibitions, and not permissions, and not judgments, therefore we do not ask questions. Perhaps you'll ask me, like many others have asked: Are you calling words of the Talmud Aggada? Yes! All of these things are Aggada in their nature, whether they're written in the Talmud, whether they written as drashot" (Rambam, Letter to R' Pinchas HaDayan)
"שכך דרך בעלי אגדה על סמך כל דהוא בונים דבריהם" "That is the way of the makes of Aggada, on the smallest foundation they build their words" (Responsa of Rosh, 13 21)
That is to say, Aggada was intended for moral edification, teachings lessons, etc. It is not intended to augment historical statement or fact about the events discussed. It does not guarantee consistency with other texts.
Rav Hai Gaon, Rav Sherira Gaon, Shmuel Hanagid, Rambam and others all tell us we cannot rely on aggados or take them literally. Where empirically disproven it is certainly unnecessary or even criminal to do so, e.g., Talmudic physiology and medicine. It is also logically impossible, considering that aggados are often mutually contradictory, and there are often several different versions of a story or saying within the literature.
The idea of infallibility "ad chasimas hatalmud" (which one rov told me) is completely 'opgefregt.' Rabbi Yehuda himself uses empirical observation to disprove "our view" in favor of the view of the gentiles, re. where the sun goes at night. His observation, regarding why springs are warm, is incorrect, but the main thing is that he decided based on observation. He would have been the first to deny the existence of a mouse that is half mouse and half earth (Mishna Hullin) if he had ever been to the Nile Delta and observed the rodents there. But since people said it existed at the time, the mishna tells you the halacha.
In other words, it doesn't do the Talmud any favors to insist on asserting the correctness or literalness of its fantastical, humorous, or pseudo-scientific/speculative parts. The Talmud is better off for it.
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Shimon, welcome to m.y, and thanks for your helpful commentary! Please consider clicking on the "register" button above, to take advantage of all the features here.– ShalomCommented Jan 11, 2011 at 21:15
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6By and large this answer is fine, but one should be wary of dismissing any part of the Gemara as "fantastical, humorous, or pseudo-scientific." It may be true that these statements are not meant in a literal sense, but after all, "even the casual speech of Torah scholars demands study" (Avodah Zarah 19b) - all the more so if they felt these statements important enough to record for all time. There are indeed important moral and Kabbalistic lessons that can be learned from these statements (and occasionally, too, they have their place in halachic discussion).– AlexCommented Jan 12, 2011 at 20:44
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2Rabbi Yehuda does not use Emprical observation regarding the sun's path at night. He just says that it seems more correct. Similarly his 'observation' regarding springs is a hypothesis not an observation.– aviCommented Dec 5, 2011 at 6:03
The general view of the Geonim and Sephardi Rishonim was that not every Aggadta is authoritative or needs to be taken literally. Some Ashkenazi rishonim were more inclined to take a literalist stance for much of aggadata. The machloket continues to this day, with many haredim taking the literalist stance.
Specifics: Rambam was already cited. Ramban has a more complex position, but didn't take an extreme authoritarian or literalist view. For example, see his statements about aggadata from his disputation. The Ba'alei Tosafos were more literally inclined, in the more extreme form, they even believed in corporealism.
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1I kind of resent that generalism. I consider myself "haredi", and yet do not take a literalist stance toward midrash/aggada at all.– jakeCommented May 24, 2011 at 23:59
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OK, I edited it. Though full-fledged haredim wouldn't be using such a site.– Ariel KCommented May 25, 2011 at 0:03
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2Do you think the Ramban actually meant what he said at the disputation, or he was just using an excuse to get out of having to answer agadot?– MenachemCommented Dec 5, 2011 at 4:45
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1"they even believed in corporealism." More accurately "Some even believed in corporealism" The implication now is that most or all believed on corporealism.– mevaqeshCommented Feb 11, 2015 at 18:06
I think it would depend on which Midrash. I think the Rabbis throughout the generations understood that some Midrashim that are meant to be taken literally, and some aren't. However, which ones are to be taken literally and which ones are not may be a subject of debate.
Take for example, the Midrash that tells us that Avraham Avinu was thrown into a fiery furnace by Nimrod. As the Abarbanel points out, Rashi, Ramban, and the Ran all understand that Midrash is to be understood literally. On the other hand, the Abarbanel says that the Ibn Ezra does not believe the Midrash is to be taken literally.
Even the Ibn Ezra discounting the Midrash's literal interpretation shows (in my mind) that some Midrashim should be taken literally (if not, why bother discounting it).
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2Ibn Ezra would tell you that Avraham Avinu wasn't really thrown into fiery furnace by Nimrod.– jakeCommented Dec 5, 2011 at 4:55
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2I think Ibn Ezra does take the midrash literally as well. He just doesn't agree with it.– jakeCommented Dec 5, 2011 at 15:47
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1The Ibn Ezra's comment on אור כשדים can be found in the version of his commentary ראב"ע שיטה אחרת which, for instance, can be found at the back of the תורת חיים Mikraot Gedolot. (Couldn't find a version online). He says on 11:28: וקדמוננו אמרו שהשליך אברהם אבינו בכבשן האש, ולא נזכר זה בכתוב, ואם היא קבלה נקבל כדברי תורה. And our predecessors have said that Avraham was thrown in to the furnace of fire, and this is not mentioned in the Torah, and if this is 'kabbala' (an accepted tradition) then we shall accept them as words of Torah.– ChaimKutCommented Jan 25, 2012 at 3:01
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1He seems to be taking a 'safe' attitude to leave open the option to reject certain midrashim as long as they're not קבלה, an accepted tradition. Other examples: Genesis 22:4 hebrewbooks.org/… . "And our rabbis have said that Yitzchak was 37 at the time of the binding of Isaac (Akeida). If they are an accepted tradition then we will accept it. But logically this is not correct." Also see Genesis 11:29 (again the "long" version of Ibn Ezra) "Those who have said that Sara is Yiskah... this is a drash/explication or logical inference, not an– ChaimKutCommented Jan 25, 2012 at 3:11
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1accepted tradition, and this is not a command [to accept it as fact]."– ChaimKutCommented Jan 25, 2012 at 3:11
To expand upon what I think the Rambam (quoted by Shalom) had in mind:
I think it is somewhat irrelevant whether or not what the midrash says actually happened. Midrashim are meant to give us ideas, not necesarrily facts. The midrash that says Avraham survived a furnace is telling us that Avraham was so great that he could have done that. Whether he actually did matters very little if at all. When it says Hashem held har sinai over bnei yisrael when giving them the torah, it is again irrelevant whether this actually happened. When we (or at least when I) read the story surrounding matan Torah, the first word to come to mind is not fear. The midrash is emphasising that what bnei yisrael experienced had a prominent element of fear, even without having a mountain suspended over their heads. Midrashim about good people are meant to tell us how we should act. Midrashim about bad people are meant to tell us how we should not act.
A couple more points:
- Midrashim are (in general) meant to be analysed for literary content, not factual content
- If there is some inconsistency with the text, then that inconsistency is probably not the point of midrash
A quick story to illustrate my point:
There was some famous Rabbi (I don't remember who exactly) who was accused of some crime (again, I don't know what). Anyway, during his trial, his students came to plead with the judge claiming that there rabbi had never sinned before in his life. The accusing lawyer asked the judge in amazement "Do you really believe that?" The judge replied "I don't know, but they don't say that about you and me."
(I just want to make this absolutely clear: This is my opinion and I have seen a fraction of a fraction of all the midrashim that are out there and I don't have any direct 'source' for this other than extrapolation from the Rambam)
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2"If they were all completely factual and relevant, shouldn't they have been included in the torah?" ummm...I don't follow your logic here.– Double AA ♦Commented May 8, 2012 at 22:40
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It applies more to midrashim on Torah than anything else. If the Midrashim are facts that Hashem thought were necesary to be known, wouldn't He have told them to us? Commented May 8, 2012 at 22:48
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"ואין בזה לא דברי קבלה" - from the rambam quoted in ChaimKut's answer (I wouldn't be at all suprised if I grossly misunderstood that). Also, even if I'm wrong here, it isn't exactly an integral part of my argument. Commented May 8, 2012 at 23:20
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Oh the rest of what you said is fine; I just didn't see how that last line supports you.– Double AA ♦Commented May 8, 2012 at 23:22
I am surprised that the Vilna Gaon hasn't been quoted. In the name of covering all bases, then:
ואע"פ כו'. הרמב"ם וכ"כ בפי' המשנה לפ"ד דעבודת כוכבים אבל כל הבאים אחריו חלקו עליו שהרי הרבה לחשים נאמרו בגמרא והוא נמשך אחר הפלוסופיא ולכן כ' שכשפים ושמות ולחשים ושדים וקמיעות הכל הוא שקר אבל כבר הכו אותן על קדקדו שהרי מצינו הרבה מעשיות בגמ' ע"כ שמות וכשפים אמרה איהי מלתא ואסרתה לארבא אמרו כו' (שבת פ"א ב' חולין ק"ה ב') ובספ"ד מיתות ובירושלמי שם עובדא דר"א ור"י ובן בתירה וכן ר"ח ור"א דאיברו עיגלא תילתא ור' יהושע דאמר שם ואוקמיה בין שמיא לארעא (בכורות ח' ב') וכן אבישי בן צרויה (סנהדרין צ"ה א') והרבה כיוצא ואמרו (בספ"ד מיתות חולין ז' ב') למה נקרא שמן כשפים כו'. והתורה העידה ויהיו תנינים וע' זוהר שם וכן קמיעין בהרבה מקומות ולהשים רבו מלספר. והפלסופיא הטתו ברוב לקחה לפרש הגמרא הכל בדרך הלציי ולעקור אותם מפשטן וח"ו איני מאמין בהם ולא מהם ולא מהמונם אלא כל הדברים הם כפשטן אלא שיש בהם פנימיות לא פנימיות של בעלי הפלוסופיא שהם חצוניות אלא של בעלי האמת:
The above is an attack on the Rambam's approach, and to summarise: the Vilna Gaon holds that we should take supernatural midrashim/agadah literally in all possible cases. He also states that one should do so in conjunction with the "inner" lesson of the midrash and that both work together to give the complete teaching.
This understanding of the Vilna Gaon is given by R' Leiman in Otzer Peninim, who also brings the Shalah from Parashat Va'era in his Torah Ohr (ד״ה וכבר) who explains that even divrei Chazal must be understood k'peshuto. He also quotes this opinion from Menorat Hame'or by R' Abuhav.
He specifically brings the Maharsha from Bava Batra 74b (ד״ה ודע), who says this.
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I won't downvote you if your explanation of this text is sourced to someone (even if it's a name of some modern rabbi I don't recognize who probably has an ideological bias to interpret things a particular way), but this is hardly the simple read of the quoted source. The piece is just discussing Rambam's opposition to magic/demons, not all possible supernatural events in aggada. It's quite a famous piece and it's clear from how few people quote it as you have that this is not the generally accepted read.– Double AA ♦Commented Sep 23 at 19:30
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@DoubleAA sure, and much appreciated engaging with you on this. One day I will try to bring the full case from his sefer so you can consider it. I will also note that you haven't quoted any sources either, nor proven you and your sources are not biased (I'm sure you could easily, this is just a point). Let's discuss again sometime, maybe once I've made my next edit on this in future. Kol tuv Commented Sep 23 at 19:32
The difficulty in answering your question is in understanding what the term "literally" means in context of medrish. For example there is a well known Gemara (Megilla 7b) about Raba and Rav Zeira who were celebrating and one shechted the other. Came morning time Rabba davens and Rav Zeira is revived. The next year Rabba invites Rav Zeira over and he declines, saying that one should not rely on a miracle.
One could understand this literally in two ways...
- They were both very drunk and Rabba cut off Rav Zeira's head and then preformed a miracle that brought him back to life.
- They were learning the great secrets of Torah of which Rabba was able to handle much more than Rav Zeira and in teaching Rav Zeira he "shechted" him and Rav Zeira passed away but there was a miracle that brought him back.
The first explanation is silly and doesn't teach us much. The second explanation recognizes that there is the part of the story which is literally true and part of the story which alludes to something deeper.
So as to know what to understand literally and what not to, it takes an understanding of what the story is and what the context for that story is as well.
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1I don't understand how #2 could possibly be called "literally" understanding the midrash.– DanielCommented Nov 3, 2015 at 14:09
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1@Dude Are you claiming that the literal meaning of "shecht" is "to not be able to handle the depth of the Torah one is trying to be mekabel"?– Double AA ♦Commented Nov 17, 2015 at 5:43
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1Even if it's the plain meaning (which it's not) a euphemism is by definition not literal.– DanielCommented Nov 17, 2015 at 13:53
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1I don't see why you think that the first explanation--the literal explanation--of the episode of Rabba and Rabbi Zeira is "silly and doesn't teach us much." It's important and teaches us at least two important things. One, crazy stuff happens when you get too drunk. Even on Purim, don't get that drunk. Two, don't do terrible things and rely on Hashem to make it all better. Don't rely on miracles. Instead, use the common sense that He gave you and don't get into a situation where you need miracles. @Dude Commented Sep 18 at 19:38
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1@Dude, I assume that Rabbah shechted Rabbi Zeira unintentionally, perhaps while juggling knives or perhaps while trying to demonstrate proper shechita technique. And I think that the fact that such a story is related about such great figures is an important part of the lesson. Call it lesson #3: Don't think that your personal righteousness and wisdom are protections against the effects of alcohol. Rabba and Rabbi Zeira made that mistake, and you are surely no greater than they were. Commented Sep 18 at 20:56
No. In his work called Chelek, Maimonides writes that those who take Midrashim literally are "fools," while those who reject them out of hand are also "fools." Midrashim are imaginative parables, sermons designed to teach moral lessons. People should mine Midrashim for lessons about proper behavior.
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@Alex Perhaps not, and if so, why is my answer downvoted? (Not implying that you did it).– JonathanCommented Jan 21, 2020 at 0:55
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3The person who downvoted might feel that your answer doesn't add anything to the discussion. If you agree with an existing answer, you can upvote it, and leave a comment for any minor points relating to it. If you think an existing answer is wrong you can downvote it and leave a comment with your objections. You can also post your own answer showing why a different interpretation of the same source is correct, if that's what you feel. But your answer here simply cites the same source as the other answer, and makes no claims about being different. (Not my downvote, though.)– AlexCommented Jan 21, 2020 at 1:01
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Interesting. I'll have to remember that. Thank you for your insight.– JonathanCommented Jan 21, 2020 at 1:11
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