Definition of "Isko Im Hanashim"

Question

Which modern-day poskim address what professional relationships would make one considered "Isko Im Hanashim" - working with women, in relation to Hilchos Yichud, and what are their definitions?

For example, would a regular desk job be considered "Isko Im Hanashim" if there are women in his office? What about a restaurant waiter?

Answer 1

The Sefer Kovetz Chavuros Halacha pg.535 writes that there are a bunch of examples from the gemara, and Rashi explains that any profession that deals with women. For example, a jewler who deals with women,a mill chisler who fixes mills of women. It is a profession where a man deals with a woman in a personal fashion. The Sefer gives an example of a repair man who comes to fix a washing machine or oven would be comparable to a mill fixer. A doctor for women for children would also be included in this category. However, if the profession is not woman dominant, like a jewelry store has men and women ,or a grocery store is frequented by men and women then they would not be included .

He then addresses the issue with a secretary do we consider it working with women or do we say that it's a case of libo gas bo. See Toras Hayichud perek 3.

What would be the difference between isko im hanashim and libo gas bo? It may be that libo gas bo is only an issue with that particular woman ,but all other women no extra precautions are necessary. However, isko im hanashim may be that all women may be problematic, since the lashon of SA seems to apply to all women not just the women whom you are doing business with.

It would seem that women in office who do their own work and only interact with you for non business would be an issue of libo gas bo, but not isko im hanashim.

Answer 2

The sefer “Ashrei Ha’Ish” contains the rulings of Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashev z”l.

In Even Ha’Ezer (2:15), he addresses the parameters of “Isko Im Hanashim”.

כז. וגדר "עסקו עם נשים", הוא איש שעסקו ומלאכתו רק עם נשים (מלבד אלו שעסקן בגוף הנשים).אך אם אין מלאכתו רק עם נשים, כגון מכולת וירקן, ואף צורף שמתקן כלי כסף וזהב של אנשים ונשים, לא מיקרי עסקו עם נשים.

אכן אם הוא בעל מכולת חברותי, שכל אחד שהא שואל מה נשמע ומה שלומך, ויש גם הרבה נשים שבאות לקנות ומדבר איתם, זה גם נחשב מלאכתו עם הנשים.

Translation:

27. The definition of “isko im hanashim” (besides those who physically deal with women’s bodies) is a man whose dealings and work is exclusively with women. However if his work is not exclusively with women, such as grocery stores and fruit stores; and even a jeweler who fixes gold and silver vessels of both men and women, it is not considered “isko im hanashim”.

    But if he is a sociable grocery store owner, who asks everyone “what’s happening”, and “how are you doing”, and there are also many women who come to buy and he talks to them, it is also considered “isko im hanashim”.

ל. בעל משרד המעסיק פקידות במשרדו, ונוצר קשר בינו לבין הנשים, דינו כמי "עסקו עם נשים", מאחר והנשים צריכות לו בודאי מחפין עליו, וגרוע זה מסתם איש שעסקו עם הנשים.

Translation:

30. An office owner, that employs female staff in his office, and a relationship was established between him and the women, is considered to be “isko im hanashim”, since the women are dependent on him, they will surely cover up for him, and he is worse than an ordinary man who is “isko im hanashim”.