If one borrowed 7 onions from a neighbor, and when getting home he realizes that 3 of them were bad (bad enough that they're not worth anything). Is he allowed to give back 7 good onions? Would that be ribbis? Would it make a difference if he's embarrassed to tell the lender that some of the onions were bad? If it is ribbis, What should he do?
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How could it be ribbis if there's no money involved?– Double AA ♦Commented Jul 23, 2017 at 15:43
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@DoubleAA וּבְמַרְבִּ֖ית לֹא־תִתֵּ֥ן אָכְלֶֽךָ– LoewianCommented Jul 24, 2017 at 0:27
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AYLOR but what would be the problem if you're giving it as a gift unrelated to the loan.– LoewianCommented Jul 24, 2017 at 0:28
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@Loewian yo''d si' 160 s' 5 - אֲפִלּוּ אִם אָמַר לֵיהּ בִּשְׁעַת לְקִיחַת הָרִבִּית: אֲנִי נוֹתְנוֹ לְךָ בְּמַתָּנָה, אָסוּר לְקַבְּלוֹ מִמֶּנּוּ. can't give ribbis and say it's a gift.– Ribis ShmibisCommented Jul 24, 2017 at 5:08
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@Eliyahu That's presumably where the ribis was prestipulated. Here, had the loaner known the onions were rotten, he would have never given them nor expected fresh ones in return. So there was never usurious intent.– LoewianCommented Jul 24, 2017 at 13:48
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1 Answer
Sefer Hateshuvos B'hilchos Ribbis Bris Pinchos, authored by (my esteemed Rebbie) Rav Pinchos Vind of Yerushalayim, (A renowned expert on ribbis, and author of a number of works on the subject), Question 51:
לוה מוצרים מהשכן ונמצאו מקולקלים - אם מותר להחזיר מוצרים טובים
[Question]: If one borrowed from a neighbor products, and they were [subsequently] found to be spoiled, may he return good [quality] products?
In paragraph 4 of the answer he writes:
אולם בבצל ושאר מאכלים שנמצאו שאינם ראויים למאכל, מסתבר להחמיר בזה, כי בצל מעופש ויין חמוץ אינו שווה, והקונה בחנות מאכלים ומוצאם מעופשים יכול להחזירם לחנות. ואם מחזיר למלוה מאכלים ראויים הרי זה יותר ממה שקיבל
But, with onions and other products which were found to be inedible, it is probable that one should be stringent, since rotten onion[s] and spoiled wine is not worth [anything], and when one buys food items in a store and finds them to be rotten he can return them to the store [and will be eligible for a refund]. And [thus] if he returns good [quality] food to the lender, he is returning more than he received [and this would be ribbis].
Rabbi Vind Continues:
אלא שיש מקום לומר שכיון שמתבייש לומר לשכנו שהבצל היה מעופש...אולי מותר להחזיר מאכלים טובים, בגלל שאינו מוסיף בגלל ההמתנה אלא משום שמתבייש להחזיר מה שלוה.
Yet there is room to say, that since he may be ashamed to tell his neighbor that the onion[s] were rotten,... maybe it is permissible to return good [quality] food, since he is not adding [the additional return] because of the waiting* but because he is ashamed to return what he has taken.
- [the Gemara says Ribbis is "אגר נטר "payment for waiting" - when a borrower pays interest to the lender he is essentially paying for the time which the lender had to wait to get his money back]
Rabbi Vind Continues: [ואין לומר שאם כן כל מי שמתבייש שלא לתת ריבית מותר להוסיף מחמת הבושה, ודאי זה אינו, שאסור להוסיף ריבית מחמת הבושה, שאם מתבייש שלא להוסיף הרי כל הבושה הוא באיסור, אבל כאן יש סיבה אחרת לבושה שמתבייש לומר לשכנו שנתן לו מאכלים מעופשים, ואינו מחמת ההלואה ויש להסתפק אולי מותר.
It cannot be said that if this is so, then anyone who is ashamed not to give interest is permitted to add [payment] due to embarrassment, this is definitely not so! for it is forbidden to add interest due to embarrassment, since if one is embarrassed not to add interest, his whole embarrassment is forbidden, but here there exists another reason for his embarrassment, [he is not embarrassed not to add interest], it is only because he ashamed to tell his neighbor that he gave him rotten foods, and it is not because of the loan, [so] there is room to question [consider] that it might be permitted.
answered May 30, 2018 at 19:21
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Why is this different than your other question about the eggs?– HeshyCommented May 30, 2018 at 21:10
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@Heshy I noted in that post, Rabbi Vind's reasoning that with eggs one cannot go back to a store where he purchased eggs and return an egg which he found to have a bloodspot. Thus, the eggs value is for probably clean eggs. Here he says why onions are different "since rotten onion[s] and spoiled wine is not worth [anything], and when one buys food items in a store and finds them to be rotten he can return them to the store [and will be eligible for a refund].". Commented May 30, 2018 at 21:15