Does the member of a minyan have the right not to permit a shaliach tzibur who does not daven properly (e.g., someone who davens too fast, cannot be followed and skips)? See Shulchan Aruch 51:12.
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2Even if you do seemingly the rest of the shul also then has the right to kick you out instead. Unless you own the premises I guess– Double AA ♦Commented Apr 19 at 15:22
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1... I don't mean to say you aren't right. If someone actually isn't leading properly, the rabbi should absolutely stop him from being allowed to lead. Just don't pick a fight you can't win– Double AA ♦Commented Apr 19 at 19:39
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Welcome to MiYodeya Jerry and thanks for this first question. Since MY is different from other sites you might be used to, see here for a guide which might help understand the site. Great to have you learn with us!– mblochCommented Apr 20 at 17:15
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The correct referrence is 15: 12. and I stand corrected. I objected to the individual ,who claimed that he could not daven at a slower pace. When I objected, the entire minyan did not object to my refusal to accept the Shaliach tzibur. I believe that in accordance with 15:12 and because of the tacit acceptance of the congregation who were present, I was acting in accordance with the sulchan aruch 15:12. any comments? Jerry– JERRYCommented Apr 21 at 17:16
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1 Answer
First of all, there's no 51:12 in Orach Chaim, at least not in the Mechaber's Shulchan Aruch. The correct reference is 53:19, and here's what it says:
'אפי' יחיד יכול לעכב ולומר איני רוצ' שפלוני יהיה חזן אם לא שכבר הסכים עליו מתחיל
Even an individual can object and say that he doesn't want X to be the chazzan, unless he agreed to have him to begin with.
To which Rema adds:
ודוקא שיהי' לאותו יחיד טעם הגון ע"פ טובי העיר אבל בלאו הכי אין היחיד יכול למחות בש"ץ [מהרי"ו סי' ס'] ואם הוא שונאו יכול למחות בו קודם שהסכים עליו [מהר"ם פדואה סי' ק"ד ומהרי"ק שורש מ"ד]
Only if that individual has a reason [for his opposition] that appears to the community leaders to be reasonable. Otherwise, an individual can't protest [the appointment of] a shliach tzibbur (Mahari Weil, sec. 60). If he is his enemy, he can object before he agreed to his [appointment] (Maharam Padua, sec. 104, and Maharik, Shoresh 44).
[That last point means that if he originally agreed that the fellow should be appointed and then later on they had a falling out, his protest is ignored (Magen Avraham).]
That said, both Taz and Magen Avraham say that most congregations customarily appoint a board whose decisions in this area are final, or they follow the majority of the shul dues-payers. (Furthermore, Magen Avraham notes that nowadays the chazzan isn't really exempting anyone's obligation anyway, since everyone is able to say the Amidah, so that the argument that "we don't get along and therefore he won't have me in mind during his prayers" doesn't really hold water.)
