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The Torah obligates us to keep the proper measures in weights and rulers, like Amah and Tefach and Log and Shekel and Selah.

Let's imagine there's an argument in court about house footage - one says 10 Ama and another 12. Who is witnessing in the court about their measurements?

So from Moses and on who represented the Jewish "Bureau of Weights and Measures"?

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    The question is not correctly stated. You mention halachic weights and measures, which we stopped using since destruction of the Temple. However, jews historically used local measures when addressing issues in beis din.What are you asking about?
    – Y DJ
    Commented Jul 29 at 11:59
  • @YDJ Do you have sources that the measures were kept as long as the Temple stood? My question implies the existence of "Heavenly inspired" Biblical measures and weights, not using Goyish ones.
    – Al Berko
    Commented Jul 30 at 15:02
  • yes, see mishnayot from masechet Menachos in my answer below for an example, which I edited after some research.
    – Y DJ
    Commented Jul 30 at 15:08
  • Why do you think that the vessels mentioned in Menachos are goyish?
    – Y DJ
    Commented Jul 30 at 15:14

2 Answers 2

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Rambam in Geneivah 7:1 writes:

הַשּׁוֹקֵל לַחֲבֵרוֹ מִמִּשְׁקָלוֹת חֲסֵרוֹת מִן הַמִּשְׁקָל שֶׁהִסְכִּימוּ עָלָיו בְּנֵי אוֹתָהּ הַמְּדִינָה. אוֹ הַמּוֹדֵד בְּמִדָּה חֲסֵרָה מִן הַמִּדָּה שֶׁהִסְכִּימוּ עָלֶיהָ. הֲרֵי זֶה עוֹבֵר בְּלֹא תַּעֲשֶׂה שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (ויקרא יט לה) "לֹא תַעֲשׂוּ עָוֶל בַּמִּשְׁפָּט בַּמִּדָּה בַּמִּשְׁקָל וּבַמְּשׂוּרָה":

One who weights out for his friend from weights deficient from the weights which the people of that country agreed upon, or if he measures out using a ruler deficient from the length which they agreed upon, he is in violation of a prohibition, as it says (Vayikra 19:35), "Do not do injustice in judgement, with lengths, weights, and volumes."

According to the Rambam, at least, the prohibition is based on the generally accepted measurements. So to answer your question: society in general, which, in practice, was probably the local government.

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  • Oh, I can put that Rambam in the Q to stress the importance, but... Can I be honest with you? See, if you follow my question you can spot a certain pattern of holes in Halacha, that seriously question its implementability. Age is crucial but nobody's counting, weights are important but nobody's keeping them, Torah's exact but nobody really cares for it. Do you see it too?
    – Al Berko
    Commented Jan 10, 2019 at 0:20
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    Why are those holes? As it pertains to this question in particular, the Torah is stressing that you not cheat anyone in business, but what's defined as a particular measure is just whatever agrees it is. Why is that a hole? If you're asking a general question, by all means, ask the general question. You asked a specific question of who's in charge of the measurements, and I gave you the answer: the community.
    – DonielF
    Commented Jan 10, 2019 at 0:23
  • So that's how you "sourcelessly" interpret "הַמִּדָּה שֶׁהִסְכִּימוּ עָלֶיהָ. "? Can we find anything better? Who's the "community"? Who's IN the community?
    – Al Berko
    Commented Jan 10, 2019 at 0:39
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    @AlBerko please just write clearer questions from the outset instead of vague ones and then pestering people with follow ups refining your question
    – Double AA ♦
    Commented Jan 10, 2019 at 1:19
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    @AlBerko Your question was who defines the measurements, not who enforces them. If you want to know who enforces them, you can edit your question and I can edit in Geneivah 8:20 into my answer. But if all you care about is who defines the measurements, then that question is entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
    – DonielF
    Commented Jan 10, 2019 at 1:35
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The original measures were kept in the Temple as described by Mishna Menachot 9:1-3 under authority of kohein gadol. After destruction, while Sanhedrin existed, they could keep the measures, but Roman government imposed their measures. The tradition got lost by 20th century. That's why R. Chaim Naeh and Chazon Ish developed alternative sefardic and ashkenazic systems. Certain measures are defined in the Talmud. "The Practical Talmud Dictionary" by R. Yitzhak Frank published by the Ariel Institute has an appendix on weights, measures of length, area, volume, and different coins.

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  • What "tradition" got lost by the 20th century if you say that nobody kept it anyway since Moses?
    – Al Berko
    Commented Jul 29 at 10:30
  • @AlBerko Not since Moses, but since destruction of the Temple. In the Temple they kept all the measures as described in Mishna Middos.
    – Y DJ
    Commented Jul 29 at 11:12
  • the question seems to be regarding business dealings, not halachically required measurements like those in temple and for brachot
    – Mordechai
    Commented Jul 29 at 11:13
  • @AlBerko The tradition of weights and measures from the Torah. For example, Chazon Ish claimed that an egg in ancient times was bigger. But the eggshells from the temple period had the same curvature as now, indicating the same egg size.
    – Y DJ
    Commented Jul 29 at 11:17
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    You're right, my bad, Kabeitza is a Talmudic measure, not a Biblical one.
    – Al Berko
    Commented Jul 30 at 18:54

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