Assuming a community where all who are eligible to say kaddish say it together:

The anniversary of a relative's passing is on the 16th of Av which happens to fall out on Shabbat, which begins at 7:59. If the person goes to the early minyan which begins at 7PM does he say kaddish during kabbalat Shabbat which will be said while it is still the 15th?

Does accepting the status of Shabbat drive his saying kaddish or must he wait until the proper date (the time after which the calendar would reflect the correct number)?

If he does say kaddish, and then hangs around until the regular minyan comes in and says mincha, does he say kaddish after aleinu at that mincha minyan (which is a davening part of the "previous" day)?

Though this is related to this question, it also seems to border on a discussion of what it means to take Shabbos in early, which appears to bring up all sorts of other argued points regarding the status of the individual and the day.

  • 3
    This seems to be a symptom of a much broader question: what status does Tosefes Shabbos have? Does accepting Shabbos early make it the next day, or is it still the previous day, just that for him it’s already Shabbos? There are many Nafka Minos to this question, yours being one.
    – DonielF
    Jul 29, 2018 at 17:05
  • Yahrtzeit is a minhag, so I think that fact, alone, may allow leniency on things. But, I think you may want to consider the general "Ben Hashmashot" concept, here. Even during the week, what if you daven Ma'ariv before tzeit? Doesn't that pose the same problem as Shabbat? I.e., what I'm proposing is a general answer. It has nothing to do with Shabbat. It has to do, perhaps, with when you began Ma'ariv. Tosefet Shabbat, perhaps, may just be a further extension as to your davening Ma'ariv earlier than during the week.
    – DanF
    Jul 30, 2018 at 16:49
  • @DanF I thought about it in terms of weekdays but I thought that the qualitative difference in the status of a day (shabbat vs. non) made it a more striking example.
    – rosends
    Jul 30, 2018 at 17:09
  • I got that, but, I think that in terms of davening / Kaddish aspects, the new date begins with the recitation of Ma'ariv whenever that should occur. In a sense, the recitation of Ma'ariv is your acceptance of the start of that date. As for Shabbat, it's even more striking. Logically, if the Hebrew date of Shabbat is 16 Av, and you began Shabbat "early" (say at plag), how could you say, "Yes, it's Shabbat, now, but the Hebrew date is still 15 Av until it's really tzet?) That doesn't make sense. I know that Sefira has different rules, but that's not specific to a "date" problem.
    – DanF
    Jul 30, 2018 at 18:43
  • 1
    @DanF If my relative (C"V) passes away after I have said kabbalat Shabbat on Friday (early davening, 7pm when CLT is 8:15) do I observe the yahrzeit on the 15th or the 16th? Does it matter whether I, personally, have accepted Shabbat yet?
    – rosends
    Jul 30, 2018 at 21:03

1 Answer 1


I asked my rav this morning. His opinion concurs with my thinking. Once you have davened Ma'ariv - and it doesn't matter if it is during a weekday or Shabbat - this is your "acceptance" of the start of the new day.

He alluded to some halacha (I believe this is mentioned in O.C.) that states that the tzibbur is allowed to start Ma'ariv immediately after a plag Mincha but still before tzeit if there will be no way to get a minyan for Ma'ariv later.

Thus, using this idea, the rav was extrapolating a "practical" instance for our shul. We have many elderly members who can't wait for tzet during the summer to daven Ma'ariv. Many of them come to minyan specifically so that they can say Kaddish. (I've already discussed this "Conservative" phenomenon in a few M.Y. questions.) Thus, the rav has definitely allowed them to say Kaddish at a pre-tzet minyan even if the yahrtzeit date is the next date. Again, his opinion is that the recital of Ma'ariv is one's acknowledgement of the new date, at least in terms of saying Kaddish.

My supplemental thinking on this - the recitation of Kaddish for yahrtzeit I think is a minhag. It certainly seems to have less halachic "status" then Kaddish for a Yatom (mourner.) So, there's probably room for a lot of leniency, here.

  • This is interesting. I always wonder whether I can keep saying tehillim on Shabbos until I make havdala if it is long after dark. Your rov's ruling would seem to suggest that I could.
    – SAH
    Aug 8, 2018 at 7:27
  • @SAH Probably, yes. Tosefet Shabbat seems to be an "overriding" halacha for many things such as prayers and melacha prohibitions. Though, related to this, in a sense, the rules of insertions to benching when Rosh Hodesh occurs after Shabbat but you are still eating Seudah Shlishit after Shabbat has ended (Time-wise), are not as intuitive as one may think.
    – DanF
    Aug 8, 2018 at 17:17

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