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גמרא שבת קמו עמוד א

ישראל שעמדו על הר סיני פסקה זוהמתן גוים שלא עמדו על הר סיני לא פסקה זוהמתן אמר ליה רב אחא בריה דרבא לרב אשי גרים מאי אמר ליה אף על גב דאינהו לא הוו מזלייהו הוו דכתיב (דברים כט, יד-טו)ואת אשר ישנו פה עמנו עומד היום לפני ה׳ אלהינו ואת אשר איננו פה וגו׳

Gemara Shabbos 146a

When the Jewish people stood at Mount Sinai, their contamination ceased, whereas gentiles did not stand at Mount Sinai, and their contamination never ceased. Rav Aḥa, the son of Rava, said to Rav Ashi: What about converts? How do you explain the cessation of their moral contamination? Rav Ashi said to him: Even though they themselves were not at Mount Sinai, their Mazal [guardian angels?] were present, as it is written: “It is not with you alone that I make this covenant and this oath, but with he that stands here with us today before the Lord our God, and with he that is not here with us today” (Deuteronomy 29:13–14), and this includes converts.

Question: The passuk which the Gemara cites as proof that the Mazal [guardian angels?] of the geirim, (converts) were at Har Sinai, is not discussing Har Sinai at all, but rather the gathering at Arvos Moav at the end of the 40 years in the desert. So how can the Gemara use this as proof for what took place at Har Sinai?

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Like is explained by the Ba’al HaTurim to Devarim 29:9, Chazal see the same language usage as in Shemot 19:17 and through that make the equation.

אתם נצבים היום גו׳

ויוצא משה את-העם לקראת האלהים מן-המחנה ויתיצבו בתחתית ההר.

There is an amazing discussion of this subject in the introduction to the commentary היכל הברכה by the Komarna Rebbe and properly understanding the nature of why the future generations have any obligation in regard to keeping the mitzvot. It is worth checking out.

  • Thank you. Unfortunately I don't have access to the היכל הברכה. Is it too long to summarize? – RibbisRabbiAndMore Jul 5 '18 at 16:11
  • @RibbisRabbiAndMore It is several pages long. The emphasis is that it cannot be understood as pertaining to Mazal or souls or things of this nature. In order to convey halachic obligation, all those who are obligated must have been present soul in a body. That includes all future generations and converts. And that leads to understanding what the nature of the Jewish body is. – Yaacov Deane Jul 5 '18 at 16:18
  • @RibbisRabbiAndMore I have provided a link to the volume with the introduction in it. Enjoy! – Yaacov Deane Jul 5 '18 at 16:23
  • Where does the Ba’al HaTurim get this from? It sounds like he’s making up a Gezeirah Shavah to justify this; do any earlier sources bring this Gezeirah Shavah? It’s not like it appears in either this Gemara or its parallel in Shevuos 39a – DonielF Jun 6 at 21:17
  • @DonielF See Pesachim 66a & Rashi there too in addition to Rashi on Sukkah 11b concerning limitations on the use of Gezerah Shavah. Rest assured that the author of the Tur was aware of this limitation too. – Yaacov Deane Jun 7 at 0:01

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