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Is it permissible to make up with a non-Jewish store owner before Shabbos that you will take items from his store on Shabbos and pay for them after Shabbos?

If not - is it rabbinic or biblical? May one use the items on Shabbos?

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R Yosef Kushner answers this question (pp. 60ff in his book Commerce and Shabbos) and forbids it.

He first explains one can complete a necessary transaction on Shabbat from a Jew if three conditions are met: one does not use the term "buy" or "sell", one makes no reference to "paying" or "getting paid" after Shabbat and one does not refer to the item by its cost or weigh during the course of the sale. As such one could take an object (after having made a previous agreement) or one could say "I will make the necessary arrangements after Shabbat". He notes it is important that this method should only be used when it is necessary for Shabbat or a mitzva. (see this other answer for more details).

However he notes that

According to many poskim, even when the above three conditions are met, one should not purchase an item from a gentile store on Shabbat.

He quotes the Rema (OC 500:1) that even the permissible methods of purchasing on Shabbat should only be used when purchasing from a fellow Jew but not from a Gentile, and gives three reasons

  • Taking an item from a Gentile store on Shabbat gives more of a sale-like appearance
  • There is a concern the Gentile will speak out the price
  • Many poskim forbid purchasing from a gentile store on Shabbat since it is considered an uvda d'chol as it constitutes a weekday-like activity

(see the original at length for sources)

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  • All rabbinic issues, is that correct? Therefore, permissible on Shabbos?
    – Draizy-Levi Pine
    Jun 25, 2018 at 7:09
  • Absolutely not. The fact that something is forbidden rabbinically doesn't make it permitted at all. Or did I misunderstand you? In any case, please remember to ask your own rav if you want to put anything you read here into practice, especially a case like this where different poskim rule differently - and where the specifics of a situation (e.g., the why you want to buy something) might influence the answer
    – mbloch
    Jun 25, 2018 at 7:18
  • Leaving actual practice aside - are issurei derabanan on shabbos asur to be used, similar to biblical mleches shabbos? (Ie until the time it would have taken to do the melacha after shabbos if it was not done be-meizid?)
    – Draizy-Levi Pine
    Jun 25, 2018 at 11:37
  • @Draizy-LeviPine in this case of buying? It will likely be permitted by your Rav since there are opinions (eg other answer here) that permit it. Some other isurim are permitted to be used after Shabbat by people who didn’t do the melacha after the time it would take to do it
    – mbloch
    Jun 25, 2018 at 11:44
  • I’m saying even according to those who say it is assur - are you implying/inferring it would be assur even after shabbos (for the one who did the issur derabanan)?
    – Draizy-Levi Pine
    Jun 25, 2018 at 12:02
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This would seem to be permitted - both the buying and the using - if:
(1) No discussion about money happens on Shabbos
(2) There's an Eruv that permits one to carry from the shop to one's house.
(3) The items were within the Techum of Shabbos (about 1 Km) before Shabbos started.
(4) The Remo in Shulchan Aruch סימן רנב adds that the items were not made on Shabbos specifically for this Jew.

See Kitzur Shulchan Aruch סימן עג - באיזה אפן מתר לתת קודם שבת מלאכה לאינו יהודי ולהשאיל ולהשכיר לו כלים in 73:9 where he writes:

וְאֵינוֹ יְהוּדִי שֶׁאֵינוֹ אֻמָּן, אֶלָּא שֶׁיֵּשׁ לוֹ חֲנוּת שֶׁמּוֹכֵר מִנְעָלִים וְכַדּוֹמֶה, מֻתָּר לְיִשְֹרָאֵל הַמַּכִּירוֹ לִקַּח מִמֶּנּוּ בַּשַׁבָּת וּלְנָעֳלָם, וּבִלְבַד שֶׁלֹּא יִקְצֹץ עִמּוֹ דְּמֵי הַמִּקָח, וְגַם לֹא יִהְיוּ דְּבָרִים שֶׁהוּבְאוּ מִחוּץ לַתְּחוּם

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    The artscroll edition of KSA has a footnote on this: "see Mishna Brura 252:33 who cites many halachic authorities who prohibit this. A rav should be consulted"
    – mbloch
    Jun 24, 2018 at 14:06
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    Although he does end with: אך אם הא"י הוא חנוני שאינו אומן אפשר דיש להקל וגם בזה מפקפקים התו"ש והפמ"ג דהוי עכ"פ עובדא דחול
    – Danny Schoemann
    Jun 24, 2018 at 14:29
  • @DannySchoemann can everyone explain how any of these reasons do away with the actual issue of being konah something on shabbos? (ie even if he gifted it to you it should pose a problem of receiving it - leaving all business aside)
    – Draizy-Levi Pine
    Jun 28, 2018 at 17:59
  • @Draizy-LeviPine - good question, but from where do we see you can't be konah something on Shabbat? (I think it's a gezeira not to business; now we've gone circular)
    – Danny Schoemann
    Jul 1, 2018 at 9:12
  • Well, we know one really can’t give someone a gift on shabbos unless some very specific conditions are met ie. It’s used letzorach shabbos - otherwise it does appear to be an issue
    – Draizy-Levi Pine
    Jul 1, 2018 at 10:31

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