Can someone, who has not yet taken on Shabbos, recite the Friday night kiddush (before sunset) for someone else who has already taken on Shabbos, [without the former intending to take on Shabbos with the kiddush]?
asked Jun 4, 2018 at 10:28
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Why do they need to have already taken on Shabbos?– Double AA ♦Jun 4, 2018 at 11:46
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2 Answers
With Hashem's help I just found that R' Akiva Eiger in his commentary on Shulchan Aruch (OC 267:1 - או"ח רסו ס"ק א) asks this exact question, and he remains in doubt.
"מסתפקנא אם אחר שלא קבל עליו שבת יכול להוציא לקדש למי שקבל עליו שבת, די"ל דלזה שלא קבל דהוא חול אצלו הוי כאינו מחוייב בדבר, כההיא דירושלמי הובא בתוספות יבמות דף י"ד בן עיר אינו יכול להוציא לבן כרך דהוי אינו מחוייב בדבר, או דהכא עדיף דבידו להביא עצמו לידי חיוב לקבל עליו שבת, וצ"ע לדינא":
It is questionable whether one who has not yet taken on Shabbos may be motzi with kiddush someone who has already taken on Shabbos. One may say, that the one who has not yet taken on Shabbos is considered as "having no obligation for this thing", similar to that which is stated in Yerushalmi, which is brought in the Tosfos (Yevamos 14) A "city" person, [a resident of an unwalled town, where the Megilla is read on the fourteenth of Adar], cannot be motzi [with the reading of the Megillah on the 15th of Adar] a "metropolis" person, [a resident of a walled city, where the Megilla is read on the fifteenth of Adar], since he (the reader) is one who is not obligated for that. Or [we might say] here [in the case of kiddush] it may be better since he can bring himself to become obligated by taking on Shabbos. Vetzarich iyun. [concentrated study is needed to decide the law].
answered Jun 4, 2018 at 12:57
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He thinks it might be ok because it's in his ability to accept Shabbat and become obligated. But he never explains why you need to accept Shabbat first to be obligated. The simple read of the Rambam is that you are obligated in Kiddush from Plag and you don't have to accept Shabbat till nightfall, even if you said Kiddush.– Double AA ♦Jun 4, 2018 at 14:07
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@DoubleAA More than that. According to Rambam there may be no mechanism to accept shabbat early, even if one wanted to. He only ever discusses tosefet yom hakippurim.– Joel KJun 4, 2018 at 19:57
No, because reciting the Bracha is automatically performing the Mitzvah and therefore automatically accepting Shabbos. The better question is the other way around -- can someone who accepted Shabbos make kiddush for someone who has not (2nd person) and can that 2nd person still do Melacha (until a few minutes befor sunset)?
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this doesn't answer the question. you can ask a separate question if you like– DudeJun 4, 2018 at 11:52
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@user4751 1- Your assumption is wrong. One can recite Kiddush even if he is not "doing the mitzvah" himself, since the Kiddush is being used for by someone who is using it for the mitzvah, it could still be a valid kiddush. Halacha clearly allows reciting Kiddush for someone else ON SHABBOS even though the one making Kiddush is not using his own kidush for the Mitzvah. 2- If you assume that there cannot exist a Kiddush for someone who is not taking on Shabbos, Why would you assume that someone who is not taking on Shabbos yet can be Yotze with someone else's kiddush? Jun 4, 2018 at 12:07
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@user4751 In regard to your (better?) question, We do find that one may make Havdallah (but, obviously not do any melacha yet) before the end of Shabbos. But this is because the purpose of Havdallah is also for the sanctity of Shabbos. (The Rambam says מקדשו בכניסתו - וביציאתו ), so it can be done during Shabbos, But How could one do the Mitzvah of Kiddush of Shabbos before Shabbos? Jun 4, 2018 at 12:22
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@RibbisRabbiAndMore Havdallah in davening, yes. Havdallah with a Ner before Shabbos ends, I don't think so...– user4751Jun 4, 2018 at 13:18
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@user4751 "I don't think so... " Think again. That is only a problem concerning the bracha on the candle. Not saying the bracha on the candle does not invalidate the Havdallah. He can say the Havdallah on a cup of wine, without a candle. (Also, he may be able to use a candle which was lit before Shabbos, (without moving it). I'm not sure whether בורא מאורי האש can be said before the end of Shabbos.) Jun 4, 2018 at 13:42