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If you start Shacharis Shmonei Esrei just before Chatzos, on a day where there is no Tachanun said at Mincha, and finished after Chatzos, do you say Tachanun?

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Someone asked R' Binyomin Zilber

  1. whether not saying Tachanun is dependent on Mincha Gdola or Chatzos?
  2. If one was unable to say Tachanun after Shacharis on Friday morning, could he make it up in the Afternoon?

    The questioner says that the Shulchan Aruch says that "by mincha on Erev Shabbos one doesn't say Tachanun" which would imply that one does say Tachanun after Chatzos (but before mincha). However, the Pri Mgadim says that "if one eats bread after chatzos, he doesn't say 'Al Nharos Bavel'" (which means one wouldn't say Tachanun at such a time), and the Shulchan Aruch was not exact with the words "after mincha".

    However, according to the Gr"a it would come out that the wording of the Shulchan Aruch was exact, and one would say Tachanun after Chatzos until Mincha.

    However, the questioner asks that with regards to a Tachanun of a late Shacharis, even the Pri Megadim would agree that one has to say it even after Chatzos. His source is that it says in the Mishna Brura that if one started Slichos on the morning of Rosh Hashana before sunrise (when one says Tachanun) and continued into the morning (when one doesn't), he still "falls on his face" because most of the time one finishes slichos before sunrise. So too by Shacharis, most of the time one finishes it before chatzos, so even when it drags out after chatzos one should still say Tachanun.

    However, one could say the opposite, and say that Erev Rosh Hashana and Erev Yom Kippur are days of "Slichos", which is why we say Tachanun during the Mincha before, so if one overshoots the right time one still does "nfilas apayim". However, by Friday which is a day one shouldn't say Tachanun, and the Avudraham has to give reasons why one does say Tachanun on Friday morning, one shouldn't say it if he missed it's time.

R' Zilber answered

  1. Even the Gr"a agrees that not saying Tachanun depends on Chatzos.
  2. If one missed Tachanun, one can't make it up anyways, so the question is moot.

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