Is the plastic pipe which drains the condensation water out of the air-conditioner unit a "Bossis L'davar Assur, because the water inside it is Nolad B'shabbos?

If the whole pipe is either vertically positioned or at least on a sharp incline, would it still be considered a Bossis?

If the water is constantly flowing through the pipe and not standing still on the interior of the pipe, would that have an affect on the Bossis status of the pipe?


Regarding the water being Nolad, see מנחת שלמה חלק ב' סי' ל"ד אות כ"ט where he says it is clear that the water is nolad.

Regarding the plastic pipe, it would seem to be a question only according to the first opinion in סי' ש"ט סעיף ד about a bosis that will be removed on Shabbos [by a goy or a child]. The first opinion says it is a bosis, so your question would be, where it is being removed automatically does that change. According to the second opinion that it is not a bosis even if it won't go off by itself, your case when it empties itself would definitely not be a bosis. The Mishneh Berurah (319/21) relies on the second opinion in the case of a loss.

Also, see עטרת שלמה קובץ זכרון תשס"ה pg. פז-פט where Rav Shlomo Zalman Grossman the Rov of Elad address this question.

Assuming that a 45 degree is not considered "on" an item, your point that "maybe only something ON something else can cause bossis", is like the ב"ח סי' ש"ח (סעיף ט"ז) ד"ה חלוק. However, the (פרי מגדים (סי' ש"ח משבצות זהב ס"ק י"ד says that even if the supporting item is above the Muktza it has the rules of a Bosis.

  • 1
    I knew that the water is nolad. My question was whether it causes the pipe to be a bossis. When I asked about the water flowing through it, I wasn't thinking of the idea of a bossis being removed doing shabbos, on the contrary, it is possible that there will be water flowing through the pipe during all of shabbos. My question was if flowing water creates a bossis in the first place, since it is not stationed on the pipe but flowing. I would have the same question if there was a muktzah ball rolling back and forth over a table would that make the table a bossis? – RibbisRabbiAndMore May 30 '18 at 17:41
  • This was the same idea in addressed by my question about an inclined bipe, since the muktzah inside is not ON the pipe because it is at a (more than 45 degree) angle, and maybe only something ON something else can cause bossis. Based on all this, I'm sorry to say, your information, as enlightening as it is, as it is, does not answer my question. – RibbisRabbiAndMore May 30 '18 at 17:41
  • @RibbidRabbiAnd More - It would seem that one reason flowing water should not be a bosis, is because there is no intention for it to remain there the entire Shabbos. Which is why the Mishneh Berurah would seem like the correct reference. As far as "water flowing through the pipe the entire Shabbos", your point would be good only if all the water is considered one unit. Your point that the water "is always flowing" and therefore not a bosis, is what Rav Grossman says at least at one point, and why it was referenced. Regarding the water being nolad, I was just trying to source it. – פרי זהב May 30 '18 at 22:32
  • There is intention for there to be water in the pipe the entire shabbos, since he wants it to be constantly draining the condensation from the unit. – RibbisRabbiAndMore May 30 '18 at 22:40
  • @RibbidRabbiAnd More - Does the water drain without a break, even for second? It probably depends on the unit. – פרי זהב May 30 '18 at 23:07

@פרי זהב answer is well founded, and I also heard R' Yitzahk Yossf (if I remember right) on the radio giving a similar opinion, but I want to challenge this viewpoint.

שבת קכא ב

וַהֲלֹא הִיא עַצְמָהּ מוּכֶנֶת לִכְלָבִים! וְכִי תֵּימָא דְּלָא חַזְיָא לֵיהּ מֵאֶתְמוֹל — וְהָתַנְיָא: נְהָרוֹת הַמּוֹשְׁכִין וּמַעֲיָינוֹת הַנּוֹבְעִין — הֲרֵי הֵן כְּרַגְלֵי כׇּל אָדָם.

Shabbat 121:b

The [toddler's] feces themselves prepared as food for dogs [therefore not muktze]! And if you say these feces were not prepared for that use from yesterday [therefore nolad], wasn’t it taught in a baraita: With regard to rivers that flow and springs that gush, they do not have specific Shabbat boundaries, but they may be used anywhere and their boundaries are like the feet of all people who draw from them.

So, water comes from the AC is WAY more similar to "rivers that flow and springs that gush" then toddler's feces, and should be allowed to use on Shabat, which makes the pipe basis (why "bosis"?) Ladavar Hamuter.

  • I'm not a Rabbi, so you can't practically relay on my answer. Consult your rabbi. – Alaychem goes to Codidact Aug 19 '20 at 9:36

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .