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Considering the europeans/christians persecuted jews for thousands of years, how will it be possible worse than the previous one?

  • 3
    Considering the current actions of the Muslim terrorists and the refusal to accept the existence of Jewis in Israel, it can definitely be worse. At least the Edomite persecution allowed for areas to escape to. Jan 8, 2018 at 1:10
  • Note that numerous unquestionably great rabbinic authorities have made numerous failed predictions about the the future of Israel in exile and redemption. The reason is, as Rambam writes in Hilkhot Melakhim (12:2), that no one has a tradition on these matters, so its all just speculation.
    – mevaqesh
    Jan 8, 2018 at 4:30
  • This shiur seems to provide an answer to your question. Jan 11, 2018 at 12:59
  • I'm always suspicious of sources that I cannot check. He quotes a Pirkei D'Rebi Eliezer but I see hint of this concept of the 5th exile in the Pirkei D'Rebi Eliezer. toratemetfreeware.com/online/f_01937.html Jan 11, 2018 at 13:37
  • @DannySchoemann you are suspicious of Rav chaim vital
    – ray
    Jan 15, 2018 at 6:58

2 Answers 2


Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai writes (Zohar, Va’eira 32a):

וַעָתִידִים בְּנֵי יִשְׁמָעֵאל לְעוֹרֵר קְרָבוֹת חֲזָקִים בָּעוֹלָם וּלְהִתְכַּנְּסוּת בְּנֵי אֱדוֹם עֲלֵיהֶם, וִיעוֹרְרוּ בָהֶם קְרָב, אֶחָד עַל הַיָּם, וְאֶחָד עַל הַיַּבָּשָׁה, וְאֶחָד סָמוּךְ לִירוּשָׁלַיִם, וְיִשְׁלְטוּ אֵלֶּה בְּאֵלֶּה, וְאֶרֶץ הַקְּדוֹשָׁה לֹא תִמָּסֵר לִבְנֵי אֱדוֹם

In the future the children of Yishmael will stir great wars in the world. And the children of Edom [the West] will gather against them, and make war with them, one on the sea, and one on the land, and one by Jerusalem; and each one will prevail over the other but the Holy Land will not fall to the hands of Edom .

Would this explain terrorism and Radical Islam? As Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai says (Shemos 17a):

וְאֵין לְךְ גָּלוּת קָשָׁה לְיִשְׂרָאֵל כְּמוֹ גָּלוּת יִשְׁמָעֵאל

"there is no exile more difficult to Yisrael than that of Yishmael..."

What did Yishmael do to merit ruling Eretz Yisrael (Va’eira 32a)?

אַרְבַּע מֵאוֹת שָׁנִים עָמַד אוֹתוֹ מְמֻנֶּה שֶׁל בְּנֵי יִשְׁמָעֵאל וּבִקֵּשׁ לִפְנֵי הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא. אָמַר לוֹ, מִי שֶׁנִּמּוֹל יֵשׁ לוֹ חֵלֶק בְּשִׁמְךְ? אָמַר לוֹ, כֵּן. אָמַר לוֹ, וַהֲרֵי יִשְׁמָעֵאל נִמּוֹל, [ולא עוד, אלא שגמול בן שלש עשרה שנה] אָז לָמָּה אֵין לוֹ חֵלֶק בְּךְ כְּמוֹ יִצְחָק? אָמַר לוֹ, זֶה נִמּוֹל כָּרָאוּי וּכְתִקּוּנוֹ, וְזֶה לֹא כָּךְ. וְלֹא עוֹד, אֶלָּא שֶׁאֵלֶּה נִדְבָּקִים בִּי כָּרָאוּי לִשְׁמוֹנָה יָמִים, וְאֵלֶּה רְחוֹקִים מִמֶּנִּי עַד כַּמָּה יָמִים. אָמַר לוֹ, וְעִם כָּל זֶה, כֵּיוָן שֶׁנִּמּוֹל, לֹא יִהְיֶה לוֹ שָׂכָר טוֹב בִּשְׁבִיל זֶה?

אוֹי עַל אוֹתוֹ זְמַן שֶׁנּוֹלַד יִשְׁמָעֵאל בָּעוֹלָם וְנִמּוֹל, מֶה עָשָׂה הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא? הִרְחִיק אֶת בְּנֵי יִשְׁמָעֵאל מִן הַדְּבֵקוּת הָעֶלְיוֹנָה, וְנָתַן לָהֶם חֵלֶק לְמַטָּה בָּאָרֶץ הַקְּדוֹשָׁה בִּשְׁבִיל אוֹתָהּ הַמִּילָה שֶׁבָּהֶם.

וַעָתִידִים בְּנֵי יִשְׁמָעֵאל לִשְׁלֹט בָּאָרֶץ הַקְּדוֹשָׁה כְּשֶׁהִיא רֵיקָה מֵהַכֹּל זְמַן רַב, כְּמוֹ שֶׁהַמִּילָה שֶׁלָּהֶם רֵיקָה בְּלִי שְׁלֵמוּת, וְהֵם יְעַכְּבוּ אֶת בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל לָשׁוּב לִמְקוֹמָם, עַד שֶׁיִּשְׁתַּלֵּם אוֹתָהּ זְכוּת שֶׁל בְּנֵי יִשְׁמָעֵאל.

Four hundred years, the appointee of the sons of Ishmael stood and asked before the Creator. He told him, “Do those who were circumcised have a part in Your name?” The Creator told him, “Yes.” He told him, “But Ishmael was circumcised, why has he no share in you like Isaac?” He replied, “One was circumcised properly and with his corrections, and the other was not. Moreover, they adhere to Me properly for eight days, and the others are as far as several days away from Me.” The appointed minister told him, “And yet, since he was circumcised, will he not have a good reward for it?”

…What did the Creator do with regards to the complaint of Ishmael’s minister? He removed the sons of Ishmael from adhesion with the upper one and gave them a part in the holy land below, because of the circumcision in them. Meaning, the children of Ishmael are destined to rule over the holy land for a long time, when it is empty of everything, as their circumcision is empty without perfection. And they will detain the children of Israel from returning to their places until the merit of the sons of Ishmael is complemented.


There are a lot of reasons :



  • It would be much much better to summarize the answers you found at those links. Often links become invalid and this answer would therefore become useless. You can leave the links for further reference
    – mbloch
    May 28, 2021 at 5:58

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