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All the money that comes to a woman before and during her marriage, the husband is allowed to eat (own) their fruits (dividends​) with the exception of:
1. Money she made from selling "(the rights to) her property, and kesuba"
2. Objects that she gave as a gift before the hupa (to hide and gifts from her husband)
3. Gifts from her husband.
(Shulchan Aruch, Even Ha'Ezer 85.7]1)

Are there other exceptions that'll allow her use the money/property she acquired before the death or divorce of her husband?

For example, when the wife acquires the money through her own labor
1. By the husband forfeiting his right to the money his wife earns
or
2. By the wife forfeiting her rights to get fed and clothed
(Even Ha'Ezer 80.18 and 69.4)

Please provide sources.

  • You mean exceptions other than the two you list? – mevaqesh Aug 4 '17 at 21:35
  • @mevaqesh the 3 I listed, (the 2 are expample of cases which I am interested in is they are also exceptions) – hazoriz Aug 4 '17 at 21:36
  • Practically in 99.999% of cases they don't worry or care about who owns what, except for a lulav and similar things where it actually matters. – Heshy Aug 4 '17 at 21:48
  • i was often told this website is not for questions about plactice (who is "they"?) – hazoriz Aug 4 '17 at 21:51
  • 1
    Married couples. No it's not for questions about specific shailos, but there's room for distinction between theoretically who owns what and what people actually do. – Heshy Aug 4 '17 at 22:04
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  1. A married woman can be given a present on condition that her husband has no ownership and then she should use the present for the sake of her nutrition.

Shulchan Aruch Yore dea 222,1:

המודר מחתנו והוא רוצה לתת לבתו מעות כדי שתהא נהנית בהם ומוציאה אותם בחפציה הרי זה נותן לה ואומר לה הרי המעות הללו נתונים לך במתנה ובלבד שלא יהא לבעליך רשות בהן אלא יהיו למה שאת נותנת לתוך פיך או למה שתלבשי וכיוצא בזה ואפי' אמר על מנת שאין לבעליך רשות בהם אלא מה שתרצי עשי בהם לא קנה הבעל ומה שתרצה תעשה בהם

  1. Alternatively if her husband does not feed his wife (or give her a maah kesef allocation of money per week) her productions of her labour entirely belong to herself.(see source below)

  2. If she refuses to take food from her husband (or accept money) likewise everything that she makes from this point on belongs to herself.(see source below)

Chelkas Mechokeik even ha ezer 81,1

(ג) הרי כל מעשה ידיה קודש: היינו בנותן לה מזונות ומעה כסף דאז כל מעשה ידיה הם שלו ויכול להקדישן אבל באינו נותן לה או בהיא אומרת איני ניזוני' ואיני נוטל' מעה כסף אינו יכול להקדיש דבר שאינו שלו:

  1. If she eats less than what she is allocated to eat she can keep the left overs(this is why Rivka gave Yaakov 2 goats as it was part of her allocation from Yitzchok that she didn't eat) Tosfos Nazir 24b:

    קימצה מעיסתה שלא הוזלו המזונות אלא קימצה ופיחתה מפיה שלא אכלה כדי שובע דההוא מותר הוי ודאי דידה:

  • +1 but Your second point how do you know the husband does not just feed her and own the fruits/dividens of what is left, (i understnad she owns it but how can she use it before death or divorce?) – hazoriz Jul 4 '18 at 23:17
  • @hazoriz the source of helkat mehokek is ketubot 58b:אמר רב הונא אמר רב יכולה אשה לומר לבעלה איני ניזונת ואיני עושה rashi explains ואיני עושה - לך כלום אלא לעצמי I e it belongs entirely to her.the Halachot follows Rav Huna. Even Reish Lakish (who says she has to work for her husband when he provides her with food) agrees that when the husband does not provide her with food, her earnings belong entirely to herself see Gemara. – yosefkorn Oct 3 '18 at 19:16
  • @yosefkorn (i think i already knew everything you wrote) my question was how do you know that it does not become nichsai melug sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh%2C_Even_HaEzer.85.7 – hazoriz Oct 3 '18 at 19:22
  • @hazoriz if you read the Gemorah I quoted it says clearly that the husband only gets peiros tachas mezonoseho which means he has no rights to the fruit in any situation where she is not fed by him. So since nichse milug means that he gets kinyan peiros while she retains the kinyan haguf, here there is no kinyan peiros ,so since the fruit belong to her they do not get sold for nichse milug, and she can even sell her field without his consent when she doesn't have food.by the way upvoted your question very relevant for Halacha nowadays. – yosefkorn Oct 3 '18 at 20:15
  • @yosefkorn (thank you for the +1) she can sell even his feild sefaria.org/Chelkat_Mechokek.70.13 , peiros are not tachas mezonoseha (tachas mezonoseha is the work of her hands) peiros are tachas pidyon see sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh%2C_Even_HaEzer.69.5 and sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh%2C_Even_HaEzer.78.1 – hazoriz Oct 3 '18 at 20:26
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EH 69.4 is really the operative rule for any practical case today if she out-earns her husband, or simply prefers to manage her own finances. She declares that their incomes are independent, and that's it.

  • +1 but how do you know that the husband does not have rights for the fruits of left over money (after used for food and clothing) (we see in EH 83.1 that she owns part of the damages but the husband has the rights for the fruits, ) – hazoriz Aug 6 '17 at 22:03
  • Not that her incomes are independent, but her living is totally independent, hence, she must pay her husband the rent etc. This course is very problematic as they will need to manage shared property, and split the expenses. – Al Berko Nov 15 '17 at 22:03

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