1

good afternoon.

In my question book for the giur I found the following question ... If you eat the third meal and the time for Shabbat has already passed, do you still say the additions of Shabbat to Bircat Hamazon? (Asked for clearification ... I mean there is a difference between interrupting your meal and interrupting your bircat hamazon) I do not know the answer.

I "guess" you will not say the addition as this one is not essential for the normal weekday bircat hamazon except in the rare situation that shabbat has ended during one's prayer (the case one has to interupt his bracha for an urgent reason). But I am not sure at all.

Thanks for the help.

  • 1
    "except in the rare situation that shabbat has ended during one's prayer (the case one has to interupt his bracha for an urgent reason)" I'm not sure what you mean by this. Perhaps edit to clarify. – Double AA May 16 '17 at 15:36
  • 1
  • if you began your meal during shabbat you say ritzei after shabbat ends – Laser123 May 16 '17 at 18:17
  • Please, forgive me my not understanding ... when I did understand it well one has to add the additions of the bircat hamazon even if the finishing of your third shabbatmeal has been delayed till a moment after shabbat? – We lo ira May 16 '17 at 20:39
  • See my answer which explains that one says the R'tzei as long as one has not yet begun ma'ariv. One should say birkat hamazon first. – sabbahillel May 18 '17 at 2:01
1

At shalosh seudos in our shul we say bircat hamazon with R'tzei because we have not yet davenned Ma'ariv. The main difference can be seen when Sunday is Rosh Chodesh. Our rabbi's psak is to say R'tzei and not Ya'ale v'yavo before Ma'ariv.

I should emphasize that this psak is because one has not yet started Ma'ariv, even though the clock time for saying ma'ariv has been reached. We are careful to actually bentsch before saying borchu and beginning ma'ariv.


UPDATE Rabbi Kaganoff also deals with the question at Do I say Yaaleh Veyavo, Retzei or both? and goes into more detail on the subject.


RabbiKaganoff.com Bensching in the Dark on Rosh Chodesh deals with the question and goes into detail on the reasons.

The Rosh (Shu’t HaRosh 22:6; Pesachim 10:7) asserts that once Shabbos is over, one cannot say Retzei.

A disputing opinion is quoted in the name of the Maharam (see Hagahos Maimaniyos, Megillah 2:14:1), which states that a meal begun on a holiday maintains its special mention, even when one bensches after the day is over. Thus, when one bensches on seudah shelishis after it is dark, one still recites Retzei. Similarly, if one’s Purim seudah extends into the night, one still recites Al Hanissim in the bensching. These laws apply, as well, on Yom Tov, Rosh Chodesh and Chanukah (Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chayim 188:10). The practice, already cited in earlier authorities, of completing the Purim seudah after the day is over and then reciting Al Hanissim is based on this position of the Maharam (Rema, Orach Chayim 695:3).

As we just explained, the Maharam rules that one recites Retzei on motza’ei Shabbos for a meal that began on Shabbos. However, if someone recited havdalah and has not yet bensched for seudah shelishis, he must omit Retzei, since recital of havdalah ends Shabbos. The same is true not only regarding havdalah, which clearly ends Shabbos, but even when one does anything implying that Shabbos is over – such as davening maariv or even simply answering Borchu, since these activities occur only after the conclusion of Shabbos (Shu't Maharil 56). The Magen Avraham (188:17) notes that someone who davened maariv before Shabbos is over (which is halachically permitted under extenuating circumstances) does not say Retzei when he subsequently bensches, even though he is still required to observe Shabbos (since it is before nightfall). This ruling is followed by the Mishnah Berurah (188:32) and other authorities. The Magen Avraham (263:33) and other authorities are uncertain whether one who said hamavdil bein kodesh lechol after Shabbos is over, but has as yet not bensched after seudah shelishis, may still say retzei.

The Rema consistently follows the position of the Maharam (Orach Chayim 271:6; 695:3). However, it is a bit unclear how the Shulchan Aruch rules.

The Bach (188 and 695) views the Shulchan Aruch as being inconsistent, arguing that this last decision contradicts the position of the Maharam, which the Shulchan Aruch himself follows in 188 and 695. The Bach understands, as do other authorities (e.g., the Aruch Hashulchan 188:23), that, according, to the Maharam, the essential factor is when the meal began, whereas, according to the Rosh, the determining factor is what day it is at the moment of bensching. According to the Bach’s understanding of the Maharam, someone who began a meal before Shabbos and continued it into Shabbos should omit Retzei, which contradicts the conclusion of the Shulchan Aruch. The Bach’s approach is consistent with the ruling of the Rema.

However, other authorities contend that the Shulchan Aruch is following the Maharam consistently, but they understand the Maharam’s position differently from the way the Bach did. Whereas the Bach understood the Maharam to be saying that the sole determinant is when the meal began, they understand that either the beginning of the meal or the time of bensching determines whether we recite the special holiday prayer. In their opinion, if one began a meal on a holiday but bensched only after the holiday was over, one recites the appropriate holiday passage (Taz 188:7; Elyah Rabbah 188:20).

  • 3
    " His psak " - Whose psak? – DanF May 16 '17 at 17:00
  • @DanF My guess is the "RabbiKaganoff.com" mentioned later in the answer. – Ploni May 16 '17 at 23:42
  • @danf while Rabbi Kaganoff was our first shul Rav (and paskenned this way), he is not our current Rav since he went on Aliyah. Our current Rav also paskened to say Rtzei since the main eating was before shkia and we had not yet davenned Ma'ariv – sabbahillel May 18 '17 at 1:59

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .