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I remember hearing from a rabbi and other sources about very long tichel being not tznooyah. What are the sources for this?

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    Tichel or Sheitel? I've heard several times that a long sheitel is immodest, but I've never heard it about a long tichel. (What even is a long tichel?) – DonielF May 2 '17 at 11:29
  • Does a long tichel equate to long hair hiding underneath? – DanF May 2 '17 at 16:34
  • Yup tichel, and that's why im asking a question here wondering if it's just the usual "attention seeking". Anyway, why did people downvote this? Because they like long tichels or is the question unclear? Haha. – Yerushalmi May 4 '17 at 22:24
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Almost certainly just someone's judgment that anything that draws too much attention in any way is immodest in some sense. (The kind of thing you'd find in Rabbi Falk's book, a book sharply critiqued by Rabbi Y.H. Henkin.) The traditional halachic sources only address whether a man can pray in the presence of a woman's uncovered body parts; it's a lot harder to dictate exactly what's called "draws too much attention."

Could an incredibly long train-of-a-hat be considered a "burden" and not "clothing" and would therefore be prohibited to wear outside an eruv on shabbos? Hm ... maybe ...

  • If I'm not mistaken, one rav claimed that there is a limit to the width of the brim on the black hat that people wear. While, there was an eruv in the neighborhood, the rav did not believe in the usage of any eruv, and tried to encourage people to follow his ruling. Thus, the hat with the extra wide brim was not considered clothing, but something extra that was carried on Shabbat. An additional problem was that he felt that the wide brim was considering a form of "boasting". (People equate being "more religious" if their hat brim is wider. I can't vouch for the truth of that thinking, though.) – DanF May 2 '17 at 16:33
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    The link for Rabbi Henkin's critique isn't working. – Yaacov Deane May 2 '17 at 22:53
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    @YaacovDeane Here is the original in Tradition traditionarchive.org/news/article.cfm?id=100680 and it was later published, probably with small updates, in hirhurim.blogspot.com/2008/02/understanding-tzenius.html – Double AA May 4 '17 at 23:29
  • @DanF Indeed wide brim hats are probably Asur on Shabbat because of making a tent (like an umbrella) judaism.stackexchange.com/q/27914/759 – Double AA May 4 '17 at 23:31
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The concept of Tzniut has two parts to it. One is Halachic based, and one is cultural/behavioral based. Many focus so much on the first one that they forget about the 2nd one, which is the most important one. See Shulchan Aruch (O.C. 75) that clearly defines the laws of parts of the body that should covered during the recital of the Shema as "Bemakom shedarka lechasoto" which can be translated "wherever she usually covers". That's a very broad specification of what must be covered! Most of the topics os tzniut are cultural based. Halacha never discusses if a slit in a skirt if fine or not for example. Poskim will discuss these issues based on what they perceive as being modest or not. So it can vary from place to place. The mentalities are very different between the US and Israel for example. Fav E. Falk prohibits the red color garment for example, but Rav Yaakov Kamenetzky z"l allows it because now even refine women use it. So it really depends on the place where one lives, and the attitude of the person wearing it, like most Halachot of Tzniut.

  • yofi!! shkoiyach – Yerushalmi Nov 9 '17 at 6:11

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