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If I offered as a favor to source an object for Yisroel, an object that is generally expensive, and I'll buy it for him at a cheaper price. However I found that I could buy it for a lot less , may I ask Yisroel for more than I paid, asking instead for the price we expected to buy it for, though still substantially cheaper, than the general cost, without telling Yisroel that I am making a profit on this favor, Apart from 'gneivas daas'? is it also geneiva, as he didn't say that I could make a profit?

  • Gnaivas daat IS stealing. So you can't really get around that. The case seems rather complicated. For instance, did you agree on a price or that you would just get for cheaper ? Why don't you want to tell Yisroel the actual price you paid? – Jon Apr 4 '17 at 13:12
  • I believe a middleman can only charge ahead of time; once they've agreed on what he can and can't do, it's too late for him to skim off the top. – DonielF Apr 4 '17 at 14:07
  • Possibly relevant is BM 76a-b: "It is obvious that if the ba'al habayis said to hire them for 4 zuz, the middleman offered to them 3 zuz (intending to take the last zuz), and the workers agreed to 'whatever the ba'al habayis offered,' they were referring to the 4. What is the Halacha if the ba'al habayis offered 3, the middleman offered 4, and the workers agreed to 'whatever the ba'al habayis offered'? Do they intend for his amount, or do they assume that he is reporting the ba'al habayis' amount?" (The Gemara leaves that as a question.) – DonielF Apr 4 '17 at 14:15
  • '@DonielF ' 1. the BM is discussing the chiyuv from the בעה'ב to the פועלים without the middleman . 2. however the middle man is only mechuyav if he says שכרכם עלי, otherwise the deal is void. 3. I don't think the gemara ever thought that the middle man would take the 4th zuz, it is only a sheilah of אל תמנע טוב. Here we are discussing a purchase to sell at a profit, without the buyer knowing the profit, the seller or middleman wasn't a sheliach to buy directly for the buyer – Stam Apr 4 '17 at 16:05

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