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Ta'amei HaMinhagim 544 says that we raise our cup from "Lefichach" to the end of Maggid in light of the Gemara in Erchin (11a): "How do we know that we only say Shirah on wine? As it says, 'The grape said to them....'"

According to this logic, why don't we raise our cups during Hallel toward the end of the Seder? Should the derashah not apply to Hallel also? Why do we limit it to Hallel HaMitzri?

  • If we extend it to Hallel, maybe we should have wine whenever we say Hallel in shul-- what are the parameters of Ein Omrin Shirah Ela Al HaYayin? – ephraim helfgot Mar 30 '17 at 3:04
  • @ephraimhelfgot That's certainly part of the question. Why limit it to Hallel HaMitzri? – DonielF Mar 30 '17 at 3:05
  • Who is "we"? I do hold my cup for all of Hallel. – Double AA Mar 30 '17 at 3:10
  • @DoubleAA My Haggada also says to hold the 4th cup for all of Hallel. – ephraim helfgot Mar 30 '17 at 3:22
  • @DoubleAA That's so interesting. I've never heard of such a minhag. – DonielF Mar 30 '17 at 3:38
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There are differing customs regarding raising the cup during Hallel. The Beis Yosef (end of 422) seems to take it as a given that the cup is raised. The sefer Seder Haaruch suggests that the reason mentioned in your question is indeed the source for this custom.

On the other hand, the Aruch Hashulchan (473:23) writes that 'אצלינו' the custom is to put the cup down immediately after לפיכך, so apparently he doesn't agree regarding the reason of saying shirah on wine. He explains that the reason we raise the cup by וְהִיא שֶעָמְדָה and לפיכך is based on the verse כּוֹס יְשׁוּעוֹת אֶשָּׂא - which can be interpreted homiletically to mean that we raise the cup when we mention salvation. This idea is also found in the commentary of the Rokeach, who also implies that this applies specifically to national salvation.

I think perhaps we can explain your custom by extending this reasoning to cover the first Hallel as well, which prominently features the salvation from Egypt (the commentary attributed to the Rashbam understands even the first psalm as referring to yetzias mitzrayim). The second hallel is not about national salvation, but is rather more of a general praise, so we don't raise the cup.

So perhaps those who raise during the first Hallel for the reason mentioned by the Ta'amei HaMinhagim are indeed those who also raise during the second Hallel.

  • Bikkurim is also general praise, yet that's exactly where we apply this derasha. – DonielF Mar 31 '17 at 15:26
  • How do we know shirah is said on wine. Why would it matter what type of shirah it is? – DonielF Mar 31 '17 at 15:27
  • @DonielF When I differentiated between the hallels I wasn't going with the shirah reason. I agree with your premise that if that's the reason it should apply to both hallels regardless of the subject. – Jay Mar 31 '17 at 15:33
  • @Jay That Gemara in Erchin I quoted in the question – DonielF Mar 31 '17 at 17:15
  • @DonielF The Gemara you are referring to (which is actually on 11a by the way) does NOT mention the drasha that I'm talking about - כּוֹס יְשׁוּעוֹת אֶשָּׂא -when I differentiate between national salvation and general praise. I think you may have misunderstood my answer, you may want to read it again. – Jay Mar 31 '17 at 17:37

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