6

The Torah requires a mikvah to be used for specific cases of tumah.

I heard in a lecture that there is one opinion who thinks that it is good even halachikly, but I don't know the reason for that.

Is a modern day bathtub or jacuzzi a valid Mikva on a Biblical level?

|improve this question
  • 1
    Many opinions would think it is, but it should be noted that almost everyone would not use such a Mikvah, at least for rabbinic reasons. – Double AA♦ Nov 21 '16 at 22:46
  • RI in Baba Bstra stated thst sheuvim is isur derabansn – kouty Nov 21 '16 at 23:10
  • @kouty Rambam too seemingly Mikvaot 4:2 – Double AA♦ Nov 22 '16 at 0:11
  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation about how much water is needed and the volume of bathtubs has been moved to chat. – Monica Cellio♦ Nov 27 '16 at 5:24
  • See here for a fascinating exploration of the subject, along with a case study of Mikvahs in America before WWII: dropbox.com/s/kjkbis74goflkmw/… – Chaim Aug 20 '17 at 13:11
4

Following Rabenu Yitschak in Tosfot BB 66b (also reported in Tur YD 201), Rambam Yes, Following Rashi, Rashbam, Rabenu Tam, RaShBA baal Hatosfot, Rabenu Shimshon and Rosh, no. The Tur Siman 201 refered to two opinions and stated that the problem for Kulo Shauv is deorayta. Bet Yosef in the same siman reported that Rambam, Ramban, Rashba and Ran agree with RY. According to the Raavad there are several kinds of Shauv but the OP is for a Bathtub which is filled normally. The Shulchan Aruch 196, 3 (the Shach said this in his name by dyuk) ruled as Rambam, this psul is derabanan, the RMA (196, 3) stated as Rashbam and Rabenu Tam, this is deorayta.

A second problem is that the bathtub is already a keli before that they cemented it over the ground. But a bathtub is a keli which is made only to be cemented over the ground.

The size of the Mikve is greater than the size of a standard bathtub but there is big bathtub.

It is not sure at all that biblically a bathtub is a good mikve.

In conclusion, from the Shauv point of view Machloket Rishonim and Machloket Acharonim.

|improve this answer
  • 1
    Note as well that it's not entirely obvious that modern tap water is Sheuvim at all, plus the fact that it might be considered Nimshakh over the pipes which are kavua in the ground. – Double AA♦ Nov 22 '16 at 22:37
  • @DoubleAA tsinor is not חקקו ואחר כך קבעו + כלי מתכת + כלי קיבול? – kouty Nov 23 '16 at 1:49
  • @DoubleAA I will learn the pipes again. I not am not sure that nimshach falls directly in mikve. + Koach GAVRA . I will verify. Thanks – kouty Nov 23 '16 at 2:08
  • @DoubleAA for hamshacha if the water falls directly in the mikve, is it hamshacha? For Tsinor. When You close the tap and open, this is not sheiva bekoach Gavra? – kouty Nov 23 '16 at 3:30
  • I'm not saying anything definitive, but if you want to find a way to make a bathtub only Pasul Miderabanan, this is another way to go. Opening the tap is just Hasarat Moneia' for instance. – Double AA♦ Nov 23 '16 at 3:32
1

It is possible (but as @user6591 said, it needs to be a big tub like 76.1 gallons of water), but the only practical difference it will make is that the children that come from relations after such a dip are ok to marry, (if they do not have bad character traits)

P.S. It is possible to make a completely kosher mikvah in a bath tub, but there are some details, see From what materials can a mikveh be made? for a start

|improve this answer
  • My mother used a bathtub as a mikva before getting married (it was organized and supervised by a rabbinical authority though). – ezra Nov 22 '16 at 2:26
  • Are their character traits proving whether this is a good mikva? Are you claiming it is not a good mikva but if their traits are good, one may marry them? Or that it is a good mikvah, but you still may only marry them after they pass the character trait test? This is confusing. – user6591 Nov 22 '16 at 4:42
  • @EzraHoerster wow, this sounds interesting, can you give me more details regarding that bath tub – hazoriz Nov 22 '16 at 10:29
  • @user6591 The state of the parents during conception affects the children, one of the negative affects is if the mother was a biblical (if I am not mistaken) nida, but if she was coincidentally in a pool or Beach or maybe even a bathtub before conception there is no bad effect on the child's character and it is permitted to marry them, practically my understanding is that the Rabbis say that if the child's traits are good you can marry them and not be worried that maybe the mother was a nidda at the time of conception – hazoriz Nov 22 '16 at 10:36
  • so then what you meant to say was practically speaking it won't make a difference since if the children have good character traits you can marry them. This is therefore an inconsequential point. – user6591 Nov 22 '16 at 10:46
0

Only a swimming pool which is dug into the ground Acording to the rambam hichos mikvoos and those who agree see tur and beis yosef yore dea 201, will be good to toivel int min hatorah even in drawn water, but miderabanan require rain water but the rash in mikvoos and others says more than half has to come from rain water.

A BATH IS 100% POSUL MIN HATORAH (unfit) however big it may be, as the tub is prefabricated and gemoro in bovo kama 67a says clearly: תניא צינור שחקקו ולבסוף קבעו פוסל את המקוה A pipe that was carved then fixed on the ground renders a mikva unfit.

Tosfos explains that this is only when it has 4 walls under the pipe so it is a container - כשיש לו לבזבז מד' רוחותיו and that is what a bath tub is.

Since bath tubs have grates to block olive size articles blocking the drain the hole at the bottom does not render the bath tub an unfit vessel. the source of this is Rambam Mikvaot 6:4 The kesef mishna there says דנוקב נקב המטהרו דהיינו במוציא זית it needs to fit an olive through the hole. Since the grate is wanted to block the hole it is botel and becomes part of the Vessel. See tosfos האי מסוכרייתא דנזייתא on Kesubos 6a מסוכרייא דנזייתא סתימת גיגית של שכר אסור להדוקה דשמא תבטל הסתימה אצל הגיגית ויעשה כלי By blocking a hole you render the barrel into a vessel ( which is prohibited on shabbos)

Those who live in africa and other third world areas might have clay baths attached to the ground with a hole with out a grate and if big enough may be considered good mikva bibically speaking.

|improve this answer
  • 1
    That's not what a bathtub is. A bathtub isn't even a kli kibbul at all. It has a giant hole in the bottom. See Rambam Mikvaot 6:4 – Double AA♦ Aug 20 '17 at 3:38
  • The kesef mishna there says דנוקב נקב המטהרו דהיינו במוציא זית it needs to fit an olive through the hole in our case thats the metal drain which usually has much smaller holes than that. – user15464 Aug 20 '17 at 3:57
  • 2
    Every bathtub I've ever seen could handle an olive. Maybe it often has a grate filter sitting over the hole so nothing valuable get washed away accidentally. But that's separate from the actual tub. The tub itself is holey. – Double AA♦ Aug 20 '17 at 4:06
  • where i live there is a thick metal flower like lattice which is part of the bath that stops thing from blocking the plumbing you can add something extra to stop the hairs from going down the drain – user15464 Aug 20 '17 at 4:23
  • A clay bath on the ground filled by rainwater actually sounds like a pretty good mikvah rabinically speaking as well, if it's big enough – Josh K Jun 5 at 7:15

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .