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If one holds that chadash is assur chutz l'aaretz (or is in Israel), and accidentally cooked a chadash product, would the taam of the chadash that is absorbed in the keilim be a concern, and would you need to kasher the keilim?

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  • Hi user8613. Why would this be different from any other prohibited food? Of course non-Kosher food can mess up your pots. Please edit your question to clarify, as right now it doesn't seem very interesting at all. – Double AA Nov 7 '16 at 17:07
  • @DoubleAA, it's not always so consistent. For example, many who only eat pat yisrael will still eat food prepared in keilim used for pat paltar – Noach MiFrankfurt Mar 5 at 18:35
  • @NoachMiFrankfurt People do lots of inconsistent things. The question is about halacha. – Double AA Mar 5 at 18:35
  • @DoubleAA, my boss, a rav hamachshir of a well-regarded va'ad hakashrus is my source, based on our policies – Noach MiFrankfurt Mar 5 at 18:37
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    @NoachMiFrankfurt Halakha does treat foods that are otherwise kosher but forbidden due to a restriction on contact with gentiles (like their baked or cooked foods) differently from ordinary prohibitions (see YD 112:15 and 113:16). But that is clearly the exception not the rule. Chadash is an ordinary prohibition ttbomk. If there's any reason to think otherwise, the OP should mention it. – Double AA Mar 5 at 18:39
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Among those who only eat yoshon even in the diaspora, some are only strict about the actual food, while others are strict even about the keilim (vessels and implements).

Source: Rabbi Joseph Herman, who is a good friend of mine, and in whose home I've eaten on numerous occasions. He brought up the idea of keeping yoshon in America to Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky. He himself is only strict about the food itself.

I do not have a first-hand source about being in Eretz Yisroel. In any case, and as always, CYLOR.

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  • I believe R Herman brought up the idea to R Moshe Feinstein as well. He's listed as the asker in Igros Moshe hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=922&st=&pgnum=311. – Double AA Nov 7 '16 at 21:36
  • It may be worth noting if some are lenient about vessels even when they are Ben Yomo, or if the leniency is only for Eino Ben Yomo. It's hard to see how one could be lenient on a Ben Yomo pot. – Double AA Nov 7 '16 at 23:09
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    You can wait until the bliot would be yoshon – kouty Nov 9 '16 at 3:56
  • @kouty, so you want to say it's yesh lo matirin? Doubtless that's already been discussed in the relevant sources (though I haven't learned most of them). – msh210 Nov 10 '16 at 7:04
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    @msh210 Chadash is a classic example of Yesh Lo Mattirin hebrewbooks.org/… – Double AA Nov 10 '16 at 13:03
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See Mishna Berura 489:48 that says that even those who are Machmir on Yoshon don't need to be concerned for Bliyos in Keilim unless you are 100% sure that the food is Chodash (which is the case less than 5% of the time*) and the pot is Ben Yomo.

There were many who argued, most famously the Shaagas Aryeh, but the Minhag is like the Mishna Berura

*Speaking from experience as someone who has kept Yoshon since a month after I got married and a regular user of Rabbi Herman's yoshon guide (who actually understands how to use it unlike most people who comment about it) I have almost never came across anything commercially that was Vadai Chodosh. This may be the only exception:

enter image description here

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  • According to your logic how could anyone experience finding vadai chadash in the grocery? Or even any non-farmer? Standing on erev pesach, a packing date the day after last pesach could be yoshon or could be chadash and same for a packing date of purim. There's no way to know for sure. You think that's what the mishna berura meant by not clearly chadash? – Double AA Mar 5 at 19:11
  • Basically the only way it would happen would be if you had some way of actually knowing when the wheat was planted for that product, which the guide doesn't tell you. Yes. That's exactly what I think. – Eliyahu Mar 7 at 1:55
  • unless you are the farmer and witnessed the whole process yourself, you never know. That's not what ברור לו means in any halachic context ever. It means obvious not logically unassailable. There is no reason to think US noodles packed in January aren't chodosh. – Double AA Mar 7 at 2:02
  • That picture is humorous, I admit. I'm guessing it was a mistaken run and they attached the sticker to the box afterwards? In any event, the mishna berura was clearly not talking about that sort of thing since commercial hashgacha didn't exist back then. – Double AA Mar 16 at 1:30
  • That's true, but the Mishna Berura was referring to a world where you could often find out when the wheat was planted by just asking a question or two. – Eliyahu Mar 16 at 2:49
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The answer is absolutely yes. If you have a food that is forbidden under the prohibition of Chadash there is no doubt that it absolutely messes up your cooking utensils no less than a piece of pork. No one in history has ever disputed this.

It so happens that for various reasons there have been many suggestions offered for why many foods which would at first glance appear to be forbidden as Chadash should not actually be forbidden as Chadash (famous examples of such suggestions are that the grain was grown by a gentile or grown outside the land of Israel). Even if one doesn't want to rely on any of those suggestions to eat the food, one might be more inclined to rely on them in combination with other lenient factors that often present themselves in cases just involving cooking utensils to allow eating food cooked in a utensil that had previously cooked some arguably Chadash food. Or one might not want to rely on any of those suggestions even then. Or one might only rely on certain of those suggestions depending on the particular arguably Chadash food in question. Or a particular case of cooking in used utensils might not have any associated lenient factors to utilize. As with any ad hoc leniency, every decisor will have different lines depending on the particulars of the case.

There is no categorical leniency for utensils used to cook Chadash any more than had they cooked pork. There are, however, usually more potential factors to combine into an ad hoc leniency depending on the case. Speak to your rabbi to see what factors you should use.

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  • This isn't really arguing with the other answers, but it's clarifying an important nuance that they all glossed over. That's why it may seem they are disputing this. – Double AA Mar 5 at 20:18
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I am careful about not eating chodosh as well as not eating on equipment that is used for chodosh, consistent with the Shaagas Aryeh. This level of carefulness comes from my conviction that it is an issur midoraisa. My practice, in consultation with a rabbi I called from Lakewood, and which is also the OU's/and Aharon Soloveichik's policy is that one can fulfill Shaagas Aryeh simply by waiting for keilim to be eino ben yomo. It is possible to eat out at homes/restaurants that are not themselves shomer yoshon provided I take the following steps. I ask whether any of the ingredients included one of the 5 grains susceptible to Chodosh. If there are, then I can't eat it, because it is possibly chodosh. If not, then I ask whether the pot used to cook it in was eino ben yomo before it last cooked grain that could be chodosh. If they don't know, then perhaps I can assume it was eino ben yomo and eat.

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  • Would you do the same thing to eat at a gentile's house off pots he cooked pork in? – Double AA Mar 5 at 18:48
  • In other words, why should I rely on mere eino ben yomo for kashering keilim where common practice requires enhancement by libun or hagalah in non-chadash cases? It's a great question. You propose Rema and/or Bach are senifs that dial back my obligations. Unclear. It could be that we rely on good hechsherim all the time that are someich on eino ben yomo but the custom is to be more careful in the kitchen (and since the custom was almost never to be careful about chadash, the custom wasn't imposed here). Maybe a deficiency in chadash's taste, like a bloody egg, justifies eino ben yomo here. – Aaron C L Mar 7 at 3:25
  • What do you mean rely on eino ben yomo? Hagala is an "enhancement"???? Using an eino ben yomo pot is literally Asur Derabanan. What deficiency is there in chadash taste? – Double AA Mar 7 at 3:54
  • I guess one can argue that the OU's approach to Shaagas Aryeh is that if it's an issur d'rabanan not to do libun/hagalah on all pots, still safeik d'rabanan l'kula applies (to the extent that the safeik about whether or not there is vadai chodosh is good) and eino ben yomo then gets you out of the Toraitic problem with the keilim. Mishnah Berurah might also find the position that the issur doesn't apply to tvuat nochrim to be another factor for ignoring keilim (at least outside of one's own home). – Aaron C L Mar 7 at 5:46
  • It's all the same for pork. If you aren't sure if the goy cooked pork you could apply the same logic. Better yet maybe the beef he cooked was really nonglatt meat that was resold to gentiles. So it's a safek and you should never have to kasher keilim from gentile supermarket beef. This is absurd. – Double AA Mar 7 at 12:14

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