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I don't know much about hilchos z'raim (agriculture-related law), but from the mishnayos I recall as follows: If one acquires produce from someone who cannot be trusted to tithe, then he must take the "first tithe" (maaser rishon) from the produce, as well as others, but not t'ruma, the initial tithe that goes to a kohen. This is because everyone, even those who cannot be trusted to tithe in general, can be trusted to take that tithe.

Yet I find that nowadays people do take t'ruma. In fact, the standard tithing text (in various versions that I've seen in prayer books and elsewhere) says to take t'ruma. Even if it gives separate instructions for what to do in case of tithing out of doubt (where tithing is only likely and not surely necessary, i.e. where one acquired the produce from an unreliable source rather than, say, grew it), those instructions do not say to skip taking t'ruma.

Obviously, something has changed over the years. What is it? Was there a decision made at some point that people are no longer trusted to take t'ruma? If so, when and by whom was that decision made and accepted? Or, if not, then what happened to cause the common practice today that people take t'ruma from produce acquired from someone not trusted to tithe?

  • I would guess it's because most people do the trumot and maaserot all together now, and so either you do it or you don;t. – Scimonster Oct 19 '16 at 17:01
  • Some still do take everything but Terumah if buying from a non-Chaver with no real Safek following the rules of Demai to separate even when you don't need to since for instance most such people tithe and you can rely on Rov. (Produce in a grocery store doesn't have any such Heter and requires tithing as a Safek "Deorayta". Demai is a Chumra not a Kula. I think that's your confusion.) – Double AA Apr 11 at 16:05
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The am ha'aretz of the Mishna knew enough about Judaism to take terumah; it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that today's non-observant Israeli farmer does not.

  • 1
    "Obviously, something has changed over the years. What is it? Was there a decision made at some point that people are no longer trusted to take t'ruma? If so, when and by whom was that decision made and accepted? Or, if not, then what happened to cause the common practice today that people take t'ruma from produce acquired from someone not trusted to tithe?" So you're saying there was no such decision (p'sak), it's just a reasonable assumption by the masses? You may be right. Can you support that implied claim? – msh210 Oct 19 '16 at 14:58
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See this Mishna, without teruma gedola:

פרק ה - משנה א הַלּוֹקֵחַ מִן הַנַּחְתּוֹם, כֵּיצַד הוּא מְעַשֵּׂר. נוֹטֵל כְּדֵי תְרוּמַת מַעֲשֵׂר וְחַלָּה, וְאוֹמֵר, אֶחָד מִמֵּאָה מִמַּה שֶּׁיֶּשׁ כָּאן, הֲרֵי בְצַד זֶה מַעֲשֵׂר, וּשְׁאָר מַעֲשֵׂר סָמוּךְ לוֹ, זֶה שֶׁעָשִׂיתִי מַעֲשֵׂר עָשׂוּי תְּרוּמַת מַעֲשֵׂר עָלָיו, וְהַשְּׁאָר חַלָּה, וּמַעֲשֵׂר שֵׁנִי בִּצְפוֹנוֹ אוֹ בִדְרוֹמוֹ, וּמְחֻלָּל עַל הַמָּעוֹת:‏

This version is for Dmay.

And see here with teruma gedola:

פרק ה - משנה ב הָרוֹצֶה לְהַפְרִישׁ תְּרוּמָה וּתְרוּמַת מַעֲשֵׂר כְּאַחַת, נוֹטֵל אֶחָד מִשְּׁלשִׁים וְשָׁלשׁ וּשְׁלִישׁ , וְאוֹמֵר, אֶחָד מִמֵּאָה מִמַּה שֶּׁיֶּשׁ כָּאן, הֲרֵי זֶה בְּצַד זֶה חֻלִּין, וְהַשְּׁאָר תְּרוּמָה עַל הַכֹּל. וּמֵאָה חֻלִּין {הרמב"ם גורס ומהחולין וקל יותר להבין} שֶׁיֶּשׁ כָּאן, הֲרֵי זֶה בְּצַד זֶה מַעֲשֵׂר, וּשְׁאָר מַעֲשֵׂר סָמוּךְ לוֹ, זֶה שֶׁעָשִׂיתִי מַעֲשֵׂר עָשׂוּי תְּרוּמַת מַעֲשֵׂר עָלָיו, וְהַשְּׁאָר חַלָּה , וּמַעֲשֵׂר שֵׁנִי בִּצְפוֹנוֹ אוֹ בִדְרוֹמוֹ, וּמְחֻלָּל עַל הַמעות:‏

This version is similar to the nowadays version.

The reason is that the chashash nowadays is different from the gzerat demay which was gzerah of Yochanan Kohen Gadol nowadays the problem is biggest and effectively some people are not trusted to do terumat. BTW in old times AmevHaarets were trusted for some Tahara rules too. מעשר שני

פרק ה - משנה טו

יוֹחָנָן כֹּהֵן גָּדוֹל הֶעֱבִיר הוֹדָיוֹת הַמַּעֲשֵׂר. אַף הוּא בִּטֵּל אֶת הַמְעוֹרְרִים, וְאֶת הַנּוֹקְפִים. וְעַד יָמָיו הָיָה פַטִּישׁ מַכֶּה בִירוּשָׁלָיִם, וּבְיָמָיו אֵין אָדָם צָרִיךְ לִשְׁאוֹל עַל הַדְּמָאי:‏

  • I don't see how this answers the question. – msh210 Oct 19 '16 at 13:32
  • 1 teh nussschbalready exist in mishna 5, 2. 2 dmay was a special problem of ame haarets already at mikdash time and not linked to modern people who are at greater risk. I.e. to skip all matanot – kouty Oct 19 '16 at 13:42
  • I wiĺ rewrite it – kouty Oct 19 '16 at 14:05
  • 1
    "Obviously, something has changed over the years. What is it? Was there a decision made at some point that people are no longer trusted to take t'ruma? If so, when and by whom was that decision made and accepted? Or, if not, then what happened to cause the common practice today that people take t'ruma from produce acquired from someone not trusted to tithe?" So you're saying there was no such decision (p'sak), it's just a reasonable assumption by the masses? You may be right. Can you support that implied claim? – msh210 Oct 19 '16 at 14:58
  • OK you want shut regardind the end of trust in everyvody concerning truma gdola – kouty Oct 19 '16 at 15:01

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