6

As Shalom explained in his answer to a question about chalav Yisrael milk, R' Moshe Feinstein ruled that in countries where the local government regulations are sufficient to ensure that cow's milk is not tainted with the milk of non-kosher animals, any milk can be considered chalav Yisrael even if there was no Jew supervising the milking of the animals.

Not everybody accepts this leniency and those who do not are careful to only consume dairy products whose production was directly supervised by a Jew. Logically, those who do not accept the leniency would consider the dairy to be completely non-kosher (as Shalom said, "Today we speak of 'chalav ha-companies', or 'chalav stam', which means: 'milk whose status is viewed as chalav yisrael by some, and chalav akum by others'").

Yet I know that there are people who do not accept R' Moshe's leniency about chalav stam being kosher, though they are not careful to avoid dairy products served, prepared, or cooked on equipment that has been used for chalav stam. What is the justification for eating chalav stam-equipment foods if chalav stam is considered not kosher?

(I asked this question to someone I know who does this and he said he doesn't know how it's justified. He does it because he otherwise wouldn't be able to eat at his in-laws' house so his rav gave him permission).

  • What's the problem? Stam Keilim Einan Benei Yoman. – Double AA Jun 24 '16 at 18:10
  • @DoubleAA How do you know it's stam keilim? – Daniel Jun 24 '16 at 18:17
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    I don't understand the question. Stam Keilim are precisely those Keilim you don't know anything else about. Ie. most normal cases of going to someone else's house. – Double AA Jun 24 '16 at 18:18
  • @DoubleAA I don't mean how do you know a specific utensil is a stam keli. I mean stam keilim einan benei yoman doesn't apply in all cases as far as I understand it. I have never heard a distinction among people who eat chalav Yisrael prepared with chalav stam equipment about whether the equipment had been used recently. In the case of my friend who eats at his in-laws, it may very well be the fact that they used the oven the same day for chalav stam. – Daniel Jun 24 '16 at 18:22
  • You probably don't hear about it bc it's not common that they need to pay close attention. And the chances of an oven being used for wet dairy right before something else is slim (along with all the other possible reasons to be meikil for ovens) – Double AA Jun 24 '16 at 18:32
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Rav Yaakov Kamentesky actually addresses this question in his Emes L'Yaakov on Shulchan Aruch, 115 (p. 308). He writes that the keilim are fine since it is comparable to the case that the Rama brings in YD 64:9, about a certain fat which contained questionable kashrus. The Rama allowed those who were stringent regarding the fat to eat from the utensils of those who were lenient about the fat in question.

If you look on the bottom in the footnotes, you will see that Rav Yaakov also held that one who is stringent can give shaloch manos of non chalav yisrael to someone who is lenient. It should also be noted that Rav Yaakov himself was only lenient is very special need cases.

Text :

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    This sort of just pushes back the question. Why can other towns use the vessels of Benei Rinus? – Double AA Jan 9 at 3:09
  • That can be a separate question , this question asks whats the justification, all one has to do is say the Rama said so,so they have justification ,the savarah is a whole other story – sam Jan 9 at 3:16
  • No, quoting the Rama indeed shows they have justification, but it doesn't explain what the justification is, which is what this question is asking for. – Double AA Jan 9 at 12:30
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Most people who are careful not to rely on Rav Moshe's leniency do so not because they don't hold of it but only because he advised that people of superior spiritual stature avoid relying on it. I conjecture as follows. Other, standard leniencies (e.g., lifgam) very often apply to cases of using equipment, so even such people combine those leniencies with Rav Moshe's in the vast majority of cases (even if they wouldn't rely on the other leniencies alone). And this led them to simply not worry about the minority of cases where Rav Moshe's is the only leniency applicable.

When it comes to those who simply do not hold of Rav Moshe's leniency at all, obviously the preceding doesn't apply. However, in my experience with such people, they don't, in fact, rely on Rav Moshe's leniency for equipment, either. I have had guests for whom I've kashered equipment for this reason.

  • Note the question never asserted that all who don't eat CY use CS keilim; it just sought to understand the position of those who do that. – Double AA Jun 24 '16 at 19:47
  • By lifgam are you referring to old absorbed flavors being detrimental to regular food? Lifgam in general certainly is not Keilim related. – Double AA Jun 24 '16 at 19:48
  • Yes, I am. Old, absorbed flavor of non-Jewish milk being detrimental to the Jewish-milk dish it's entering. I was aiming for brevity. – msh210 Jun 24 '16 at 19:49
  • A nice Purim Torah answer: Stam Keilim Enian Bnei Yoman. :P – Shmuel Brin Jul 2 '17 at 23:54

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