This was actually what I originally intended to ask here, but I got sidetracked into a related question. They're similar points, but I think they're distinct enough to ask as separate questions.

Many people have the minhag to read ועל צבא מטה בני פלוני פלוני בן פלוני in Behaalotcha and ויסעו מפלוני ויחנו בפלוני in Masei with the tune of Az Yashir by combining two pesukim together. In both of these cases בני and בפלוני have a dageish kal in the ב because מטה and ויחנו have a tipcha (except for מטה בני גד which has different trop and no dageish).

But using the Az Yashir tune, these words sound like they're connected to the word after them. That being the case, should you still read the words with a dageish kal, or does using this tune effectively repunctuate the pasuk* and cause it to be read without a dageish?

*to me it sounds like mercha tipcha munach etnachta, mercha tipcha mercha sof pasuk, with the "etnachta" being the division between the two (normally punctuated) pesukim. In the case of Behaalotcha this requires a lot of mental makafim. I don't know if anyone else speaks it out this way but that's how I imagine it.

  • "using the Az Yashir tune, these words are connected to the word after them" You have no evidence for that... – Double AA Jun 10 '16 at 18:13
  • @DoubleAA The way I've heard most people say them, they sound like they are. I agree that it's not absolute proof. – Heshy Jun 10 '16 at 18:20
  • I don't think it's even slightly a proof. Many people would assume Pashta is not a pause if they heard it, and plus if someone is using the Az Yashir style tunes such that it changes the pauses then they are probably doing it wrong since they have no authority to change the pauses. – Double AA Jun 10 '16 at 18:56
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    @DoubleAA Maybe the minhag is to exactly change the pauses like taam elyon/tachton, except here the "teamim" are nonstandard and so they're unwritten? The trop themselves were unwritten for a long time. Like in the aseret hadibrot, the parsing is the same (to quote you), but some pauses become meshartim (don't know the English word other than servants). – Heshy Jun 10 '16 at 19:24
  • @DoubleAA hopefully I'm describing this in a sensible notation. The Az Yashir tune has two parts, an "up" part (אשירה...גאה) and a "down" part (סוס...בים). Each one naturally has two places for a mafsik, one in the middle and one at the end. In the "up" part, I have no trouble making room for two more for a total of 4, which fits מי כמכה. In the down part I don't see how there's room for any more mafsikim. In Masei, you need 4 in each part and in Behaalotcha you need 5. I just don't see how to pause enough and make it sound natural rather than like a psik. Maybe you can do better. – Heshy Jun 10 '16 at 19:35

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