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Was starting tractate b'rakhoth in a Talmud that has nekudot. i came across the word וּרמִיננְהוּ and looked it up in an Aramaic dictionary to find it meaning. The Aramaic dictionary gave me the meaning, but also said the correct vowelization is וּרמִיננְהִי, as it is vowelized as וּרמִיננְהִי in earlier editions of the Talmud before the Vilna Shas. Can anyone verify this? And if so, which editions or manuscripts have this vowelization?

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    It depend. Rumia is a kushia based on contradiction between 2 authorities. e.g. 2 mishnayot. The rumia is again the owner of a sentence. They ask to him. "הו". If the the sentence is the fact of several people "הי" for your question no need of vocalization. A yod or a vav are the Siman. – kouty May 22 '16 at 5:51
  • @kouty It's comparing two different mishnayot. Since mishnayot are plural feminine, doesn't that mean it should be וּרמִיננְהִי? – Aaron May 22 '16 at 6:03
  • You are right sorry. So the vav is a sign of plural of the complement. hi with Yod may be plural of the subject. Scholar asked. What you think? – kouty May 22 '16 at 6:23
  • Is this on topic? – mevaqesh May 22 '16 at 6:31
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2 different spellings, one pshat on massa umantan of the Gemara.

See here in Sefer Haaruch Hashalem, it seems as if the both are equivalent.

Manuscripts with "Yod"

Pesachim 75a, Munchen ורמינהי

New York idem


The first Urminehu in Brachot; 2b urminehu meeimatay matchilin liqrot KS:
Munchen 95 --> ורמינהי

Paris Heb. 671 --> ורמינהי

Firenze 2.1.7 --> ורמינהי

It is very surprising to show manuscripts differents to our habitual Gemara.

We do not need vowels to verify

that the cited manuscripts are not congruents with the Shas Vilna. In many Rishonim we see the "הי" as in manuscripts. I am not sure that for an oral tradition it is important. Because in transliteration U and I are often exchanged. Nowadays we can see great variations in pronunciation of shuruk, Kamats and few about chirik.
See the word אינהו = they

Aramean Grammar Yinehu, Yinehee

See Gemara Yebamot 34a:

לאחר שלשה עשר לאחיובי אינהו מתוך שנים עשר לאחר שנים עשר לחיובי אינהי

When the women's menstrual discharge continued from [the men's] thirteenth, until after their thirteenth [birthday], when these become subject to legal punishments; and from their own twelfth, until after their twelfth [birthday], when they themselves become subject to punishments.
אינהי for females;
אינהו for males.

I see a talmudic glossary in Daat that explain Urminehee for the word Urminehu here. For me it is a mistake to leave the discrepancy.

  1. For Urminehu

    the translation is They (the scholars) have shown a contradiction.
  2. Ureminehee

    is They (the mishnayot) were brought as contradictory
Almost always when the name of the Chacham which makes the rumia is known we do not say Raminehu Rav ploni But Rame Rav ploni.
Rav Ezra Tsion Melamed (1992) has noticed the variations.
In Sefer Halichot Olam Shaar II chapter 1, Klaley hagmara (commentary on Halkchot Olam), Derech Tevunot Ramchal: "ורמינהי".
In Conclusion I have not found any interpretation for Urminehu, I tried to give some explanation. But most books of Rishonim and Acharonim have the Urminehee version. The printed versions of the Talmud are not sensitive to some klalim. For instance the Halichot Olam says that "התניא" in one word is a kashia and in two words "הא תניא" is Benichuta, a reaya (proof). Our gemarot are not sensitive to this distinction.

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