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Since the definition of sivlonos is a man giving a gift of value to a non married woman, the mishloach manos looks like this (S.A. O.C. 695,4 in Haga). So, how do Rabbis deal with this issue in terms of marrying people when presumably someone could have already been married the women by giving her a gift?

marked as duplicate by Scimonster, Monica Cellio Mar 17 '16 at 22:29

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  • 1
    That's is not the definition of kiddushin... – Double AA Mar 17 '16 at 21:40
  • Suggestion - when I initially saw the title of the Q, I thought this was a PTJ, based on the term "Meshloach manos". You may want to use a different term. – DanF Mar 17 '16 at 21:40
  • the edits make this a different question than I asked. Also what is sivlonoth? – Dude Mar 18 '16 at 4:19
  • @Dude Sivlonoth is a gifth that the Hothon give to the Cala. Remo in Shulchan Aruch says that man do not give Mishloach manoth to a widow because it seems as sivlonoth and may be safek kidushin (because gift itself is as kidushin{rashi}; or because gift is a sign that was priorly kidushin {rabenu hananel & tosfot). – kouty Mar 18 '16 at 4:54
  • 1
    @Dude Is this attempt congruent with your original question? – kouty Mar 18 '16 at 7:39
See Gemara Nazir 11B (last line) and 12A, Tosfoth Nazir Daf 12A

גמרא ‏:‏

אמר ר' יצחק בר יוסף אמר רבי יוחנן האומר לשלוחו צא וקדש לי אשה סתם אסור בכל הנשים שבעולם חזקה שליח עושה שליחותו וכיון דלא פריש ליה הא לא ידע הי ניהו קדיש ליה ‏.‏

R`Isaac B`Joseph citing R`Johanan said: If a man instructs his representative to go and betroth for him a wife, without specifying any woman, he becomes [in the meanwhile] forbidden [to marry] any woman in the world, since it is presumed that the messenger carries out his commission, and since he did not specify [the woman], he does not know which he betrothed for him.(Soncino's translation)

תוספות ‏:‏

  1. אסור בכל הנשים שבעולם. וא''ת וכ''ע יאסרו לישא נשים דשמא זאת היא שנתקדשה ע''י שליח
  2. ולר''ת דהנשים נאמנות לומר לא נתקדשתי
    1. תינח גדולות
    2. קטנות שאינן יודעות אם אביהם קבל עבורן קדושין מאי איכא למימר וכבר מת אביה
  3. ואינו אלא קנסא בעלמא שעשה שליח סתם ולא פירש לו קדש לפלונית ולדידיה קנסו ולאחריני לא קנס
  4. ‏[וא''ת] וליהוי איסורא דאורייתא דהויא ליה קבוע וכל קבוע כמחצה על מחצה דמי
  5. וי''ל דלא אמרינן קבוע כמחצה דמי אלא כשהאיסור ניכר לעצמו וההיתר ניכר לעצמו אבל כשאין האיסור ניכר לעצמו לא אמרינן קבוע

  • First doubleAA is right, the definition is wrong, see the link showed by scimonster.
  • But if we believe that some women are safek Kidushin d/t sivlonoth, it is only safek, if one women it sofek kidushim (I don't want to treat this now).
  • But if we believe that some women are Vaday kidushin d/t sivlonoth (it is wrong) see the numbers corresponding in the text of tosfoth:
  • number 2.1 --> an adult women is trustworthy when she says she is not married.
  • number 2.2 --> a little girl
  • --> 3--- 5 Bitul berov.[1]

  • So, no problem.

    1. Bitul berov is explicitely mentionned in the last tosfoth Gitin 64A.
    2. The Rif on massecheth Kidushin (21B in Dapey Harif) cited this Gemara.
    3. Ran Gitin (30A dapey harif), citing Ramban says that The Chezkath pnuya is strongest than the presumption that the messenger carries out his commission. (to return to our topic Kal vachomer that it is strongest than Chashash safek kidushin by Mishloach manoth).

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