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In view of the answers given to questions here and here, is there any reason to drink wine at kiddush if you are not drinking from the cup of blessing? (For instance, could the fact that you said "Amen" to the blessing while holding your own cup mean that the blessing also applies to it?) ...Assume your wine is also not poured by the person who made kiddush.

Also, does it make any difference whether we are talking about the Friday night kiddush or the Saturday kiddush?

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Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 271:14 says that it's a worthy practice (mitzvah min hamuvchar) for everyone to have some wine at kiddush.

... וּמִכָּל מָקוֹם מִצְוָה מִן הַמֻּבְחָר שֶׁיִּטְעֲמוּ כֻּלָּם. ...

ibid:16 and :17 together make it clear that each person is allowed to drink from their own cup, without even requiring the leader to pour some of his wine into their cup.

לֹא יִטְעֲמוּ הַמְּסֻבִּין קֹדֶם שֶׁיִּטְעֹם הַמְקַדֵּשׁ אִם הֵם זְקוּקִים לְכוֹסוֹ, שֶשׁוֹפֵךְ מִמֶּנּוּ לְכוֹסוֹת שֶׁבְּיָדָם רֵיקָנִים אוֹ פְּגוּמִים; אֲבָל אִם הָיוּ לָהֶם כּוֹסוֹת יַיִן שֶׁאֵינָם פְּגוּמִים רַשָּׁאִים לִשְׁתּוֹת קֹדֶם שֶׁיִּשְׁתֶּה הַמְקַדֵּשׁ.

אֵין צָרִיךְ לִשְׁפֹּךְ מִכּוֹס הַמְקַדֵּשׁ לְכוֹסוֹת יַיִן שֶׁלִּפְנֵי הַמְּסֻבִּין, אֶלָּא אִם כֵּן הָיוּ פְּגוּמִים שֶׁאָז צָרִיךְ לִשְׁפֹּךְ לְכָל כּוֹס וְכוֹס, כְּדֵי שֶׁיִּשְׁתּוּ כֻּלָּם מִכּוֹס שֶׁאֵינוֹ פָּגוּם.

The congregants [better word?] should not taste before the leader does if they are dependant on his cup, meaning that he pours into their own cups (empty or not). But if they all had their own untouched cups of wine, they are allowed to drink before the leader.

There is no need to pour wine into the congragants cups unless they are פגומין (soiled by being drunk from already), in which case he must pour into each cup so that each person can drink from a clean cup. (It seems to me that the leader's wine somehow purifies it. I don't understand that 100%.)

Text copied from Sefaria, translation mine.

In any case, we see that each person may drink from their own cup that they held from the beginning of kiddush.

I also heard from my parents (no better source at the moment) that whatever wine is open during kiddush gets sanctified and can't be used for kiddush again, so we always make sure to cork the bottle.

As an anecdote, this is how it goes at my home. We don't give wine to children for health reasons, so each of the kids holds their own cup of grape juice from the beginning of kiddush while my father makes the kiddush on wine and pours off for my mother

  • It seems likely that the custom in your family to cork the bottle is a mistake derived from a misunderstanding of the rules of Pagum wine. – Double AA Mar 6 '16 at 4:56
  • Do you have any reason to think that their drinking from their own cups is of Halachic significance (and not just due to thirst) and, even stronger, that it is of the significance mentioned in 271:14? Also, do you have reason to think those cups referred to may contain less than a Reviit of wine? – Double AA Mar 7 '16 at 13:53
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I think @Scimonster is misunderstanding. Shulchan Aruk Ha Rav (SAHR) 190/5 says you have to drink from the cup of blessing:

שולחן ערוך הרב אורח חיים סימן קצ סעיף ה

...אף על פי שמצוה מן המובחר שכל המסובים יטעמו מכוס של ברכה

And later ibid he says that if you are not drinking from the main cup, and you have your own cup in front of you - These cups become a cup of blessing and as if you are making kiddush on your own cup through hearing the main recititation.

הרי כולם הן כוסות של ברכה כמו כוס המברך

Now his quoted Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim (SAOC) 271:14 - does not give a reason to why they should taste, or what they should taste. You can say SAHR is explaining or arguing. If he is arguing, then drinking any wine should suffice. But that is hard to back up. In SAOC 190:4 in talking of the cup after grace, he uses the same language - best if everyone tastes

שולחן ערוך אורח חיים הלכות בציעת הפת, סעודה, וברכת המזון סימן קצ

מ"מ מצוה מן המובחר שיטעמו כולם ....

Now we do not see anywhere that everyone drinks their own cup of wine after grace, but only from the cup of blessing. It would infer that when the SA talks about a cup of blessing, & says all should taste - it would mean specifically from a cup of blessing.

The Mishna Berura (MB)(174/3)says anyone who does not drink from the cup of blessing for kiddush needs to make a blessing on his drinks for the meal.

משנה ברורה סימן קעד ס"ק ג

ודע שאם קידש על היין והוציא אחרים בברכתו אם לא טעמו מכוס של קידוש ורוצים לשתות שארי משקין אף שהיו לפניהם בשעה שבירך על היין צריכים לברך על המשקין

Why does the MB go out of his way to say drink from the cup of blessing when he could just say drink, if the rule for kiddush is just to drink. Rather the drinking of everyone is to be from the cup of blessing.

The main reason for all to drink the wine is to partake of the cup of blessing. This would lead to being no point of drinking when not the cup of blessing. However you can turn your cup in front of you into a cup of blessing. The problem with this is you need all the things that a blessing cup needs. Full, not pagom etc. But most importantly the cup needs to hold a reviit which is 85ml min. Not a shot glass of wine. If all is good your blessing on the wine is covered by the kiddush that takes affect on your cup.

There is another reason that people would drink wine, unrelated to the cup of blessing, is because of their love of the mitzva of kiddush they want to drink wine even if they cant have from the cup of blessing. If this is true then there is reason to drink even if not from the cup. But I have not seen a source for this, and I find it difficult to say that is what the SA means, as per my points above. Also if this is the reason I think that a blessing should be said on the wine, as we do not say blessings of food for other people today. That is a point for another thread. (Kiddush and Bread which we do say for others is on the mitzva not the food.)

There is no kidush text per say for Saturday, just the blessing on the wine. So its easier to say it is a bracha on the wine rather than the mitzva so could cover the shot glass of grape juice. But the Brisker Rav learns from the GRAs proof from Pesachim 106a that Saturday kiddush is also a bracha on the mitzva not on the wine. If true there would be no difference between Friday and Saturday, as indeed the Gra learns from Saturday kiddush to Friday kiddush that you have to drink from the cup.

I am writing this as I want to be challenged. And if you do not like anything I am saying I would love to have it pointed out with sources - would be much appreciated.

EDIT - another Source

The shut Zevchai Ztedek, Orach Chayim 27 - explains the SA that everyone should taste as only referring to when they have their own cup, but there is no need to drink from the main kiddush cup

שו"ת זבחי צדק חלק אורח חיים סימן כז

הרי בהדיא שדין זה שכתב מרן דמצוה מן המובחר שיטעמו כולם הוא מקורו מן הרא"ש ז"ל והרא"ש ז"ל בהדיא כתב שיש לכל א' וא' כוס בידו

However if there is only the one kiddush cup then because of a love for the mitzvah you drink from it.

דצריך לשתות מכוס המברך אפי' אחר ששתה הוא ממנו משום חבוב מצוה

So at least it is a source to drink for the love of the mitzvah - but still it is from the cup of blessing!

  • "we do not see anywhere that everyone drinks their own cup of wine after grace" What about OC 190:1 אבל אם אינם זקוקים לכוסו יכולים לטעום קודם שיטעום הוא. – Double AA May 10 '16 at 16:11
  • Note that even if ShA Harav is explaining an ambiguity in ShA, that doesn't make his explanation universally agreed to or conclusive. – Double AA May 10 '16 at 16:12
  • Hello Henry, welcome to Mi Yodeya, and thanks for your first answer! Looks like there is much you can contribute here. If you haven’t done so already, you should take a look at the tour. Please consider registering your account, to enable more site features, including voting. I hope you find more Q&A of interest and stay learning with us! – mbloch May 10 '16 at 16:19
  • I mean to say that the SAHR actually explains the SA, not just gives his opinion of what the SA is saying. As in truth this is what the SA means. And if not, even if he thinks it does etc. The Ran and Gra aslo explain the SA this way. I am trying to find others. Do you have a source to say he means drink a random grape beverage? I would be very interested... – henry May 10 '16 at 17:51
  • Drinking wine after grace comes to the same conclusion - MB 109/6 א"כ כוסות כל אחד מקרי כוס של ברכה - what you drink is a cup of blessing. (also see 182/23) But we (I?) dont see people with shot glasses of grape juice for grace like is frequently done for kiddush. – henry May 10 '16 at 18:27

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