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If one is invited to someones house on shabbat and they are being yotzeh kiddush with someone they know mumbles the words ,but they can't make their own kiddush for whatever reason (only enough wine for one cup,doesn't want to embarrass his host) is there any heiterim which allow him to be Yotzeh kiddush,or would he have to somehow make kiddush on the challah without someone noticing? What should one do in this situation?

closed as unclear what you're asking by Isaac Moses, Double AA Mar 3 '16 at 17:06

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  • Did he hear the leader say enough of the words or not? This is just a Metziut question. – Double AA Mar 3 '16 at 4:15
  • He heard them in a mumble – sam Mar 3 '16 at 4:15
  • So he heard the words. So what's the problem? – Double AA Mar 3 '16 at 4:15
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    sam, I recommend that you edit to make it clear whether the question is about what to do before kiddush is made or after, and: If the former, then what quality of kiddush is expected, if the latter; what quality of kiddush was made. By quality, I mean something like "completely unintelligible," "pronounced some 'ayins as if they were alefs," "skipped over a name of God," etc. If it's a matter of doubt, either before or after, what's in doubt should be specified. – Isaac Moses Mar 3 '16 at 17:00
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    I'm going to put this on hold temporarily as unclear (per @IsaacMoses 's comment) until those edits are made, to prevent answers (like, likely, the current one) which do not address the intended question. – Double AA Mar 3 '16 at 17:05
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As a personal solution, to avoid such situations, when I am invited to someone's house, I casually mention before the host says kiddush, "Btw, I prefer making my own Kiddush." There are some Minhagim that each person makes his own kiddush (at least males above bar mitzvah). (not just on Passover). That generally resolves the problem of discomfort.

If they are using grape juice for kiddush, (or if they are using wine and have only enough for one cup; or it is expensive wine and you feel uncomfortable to ask for a whole new cup) then grape juice can be diluted up to 40% grape juice and 60% water (don't have source) and still require the Bracha "haGafen" which could mitigate that issue.

Perhaps these ideas would help without coming on to whispering kiddush to yourself before haMotzi.

Please note that our wine (as opposed to the wine mentioned in the Gemara) cannot be diluted, as it is already diluted. Any further dilution would leave one with a safek or definite Bracha of Shehakol. See comment below "To focus on..."

Another preemptive Eitzah(piece of advice) could be, if there is an Eiruv, bring a bottle of wine/grape juice for a gift to the host. This certainly alleviates the problem of not having enough wine. It also makes it easier to ask to say your own kiddush.

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    "but they can't make their own kiddush for whatever reason (only enough wine for one cup,doesn't want to embarrass his host)" The question explicitly excluded this option. – Double AA Mar 3 '16 at 16:53
  • "That generally resolves the problem unless there is not enough wine." (Quote from my answer) Then I very explicitly added the idea of grape juice which was Not discussed. Some Poskim hold that grape juice is only good b'di'eved. Using grape juice instead of wine is better than no proper Bracha. – R Yisroel Meir Vogel Mar 3 '16 at 16:57
  • Double AA I have edited the answer to make sure that the answer is more to your liking. I hope you are now satisfied! :-) – R Yisroel Meir Vogel Mar 3 '16 at 17:15
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    I still have no idea why you are talking about wine dilution here (nor why you think all our wine is diluted, but our grape juice isn't...?) The question is about a mumbled kiddush where you can't get your own kos. – Double AA Mar 3 '16 at 17:17
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    With all due respect, he IS looking for an ukimtah. He was stuck between not being yotzei or embarrassing his host. My advice is specific to those situations. Make your own kiddush. Quite frankly, he says he knows that the guy mumbles. As you commented if he mumbles and you didn't hear the Bracha, then you need to do something. I gave him 3 options. Most people don't dilute grape juice. And being preemptive takes away the embarrassment. Then his problem is resolved. – R Yisroel Meir Vogel Mar 3 '16 at 18:45

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