The stones used to determine God’s will in a particular situation? How?

How are we to understand this and apply this for todays worship?

Try to make your answer as clear as possible,thank you

  • 2
    Please clarify the question. Consider also breaking it up into multiple questions. E.g. first ask how the stones indicated God's will, then ask separately if this has any bearing on our worship. Also consider adding what sort of bearing it may have and why you think it may have this bearing. – mevaqesh Feb 25 '16 at 1:47

We have not had the Urim Vetumim (the insert with the name of Hashem put into the Choshen) since the end of the first temple. The Choshen (with the stones) was commanded as part of the Bigdei Kehunah (priestly garments), so the high priest wore one without the insert during the second temple. Since we do not have a temple (yet) we cannot have anyone wear the priestly garments. We can learn about the stones and their meanings but that is all.

The procedure used and the miracle of the stones lighting up do not apply nowadays.

Kohen Gadol as Divine Medium by Yaakov Bieler

The view in the Talmud that during the second Temple, there was no Urim VeTumim, just as actual prophecy ceased at about the same time, probably had more to do with the level or lack thereof of the high priests of the time, than the physical Choshen.

  • We have not had the Urim Vetumim since the end of the first temple. How do you know this? Rambam writes explicitly in Hil. Beit Habehira (4:1) that they had the urim v'tumim in the Second Temple. – mevaqesh Jul 28 '16 at 18:37
  • "Since we do not have a temple (yet) we cannot have anyone wear the priestly garments" Why would one possibly related to the other? – mevaqesh Jul 28 '16 at 18:37
  • "the miracle of the stones lighting up" Who says the stones lit up? Do you have any source for this? This answer is nothing but questionable (arguably wrong) assertions strung together. – mevaqesh Jul 28 '16 at 18:38
  • @mevaqesh Consider the medrash of Eli consulting the Urim Vetumim abaout Chana and misreading the results as שכרה instead of כשרה – sabbahillel Jul 28 '16 at 19:24
  • Where do you see anything about the stones lighting up? Maybe they somehow otherwise indicated. – mevaqesh Jul 28 '16 at 19:25

In answer to the question of "how", here is some explanation

The אוּרִים ותוּמִים [sic], Urim V’tumim, served as a means of communicating with G-d. Rashi states, in Yomah 73b, that the High Priest could ask questions of G-d through the אוּרִים ותוּמִים [sic], and the letters that were etched in the stones would light up, providing answers to the questions asked on behalf of the People of Israel.

I'm not sure if this relates to current prayer, but I leave that to others.

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