If I forgot to lean at the time to eat Matzah, I am required by Halacha to eat it again. If when I am going to re-eat it in order to do the leaning my Rebbi Muvhak walks in, what do I do? You don't lean in front of a Rebbi Muvhak, but the only reason I am re-eating is because of the original forgetting to lean. Now Halachicly what do I do if asking my Rebbi to lean is not an option neither is waiting for him to leave or other solutions?

  • This din of not leaning in the presence of your Rebbi is only for your Rav Muvhak; the Rav you have learned most of your Torah from. – Yahu Apr 10 '11 at 23:53
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    Well your Rebbe Muvhak is there, why don't you ask him the Halacha? – Gershon Gold Apr 11 '11 at 2:24
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    First you have to know whether it is requires in the first place to re-eat – Gershon Gold Apr 11 '11 at 2:47
  • @R'Gershon Gold, see Mishna B'rura 472:22. – msh210 Apr 11 '11 at 3:04
  • Yahu, it's even not muvhak. – YDK Apr 11 '11 at 4:26

There's a similar case discussed if you forget e.g. yaleh v'yavo by mincha and only remember after nightfall. You repeat shemoneh esrei even though you don't say over yaleh v'yavo. It seems like it doesn't accomplish anything, but at least that shemoneh esrei was done correctly. So perhaps here too, the eating would be correct even though not leaning. Though it may be different, because the leaning is really a separate thing.

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  • Ari, I think you have it right. The azkara of yaale v'yavo is also separate. There is no question that you davened a tephilah, but chazal required that you mention the special day in that tephila. If you didn't, you davened a tephilah, but improperly and you must repeat it properly even if your omission will not be corrected. – YDK Apr 11 '11 at 4:53
  • I thought the halacha in your case is that we do not repeat shemoneh esrei at maariv davka for this reason. Can you source your claim that you do say shemoneh esrei again? – Double AA Mar 21 '12 at 4:10
  • @DoubleAA Orach Chaim Siman 108 Sif 11. See M"B there also Sif-Katan 34 and 35. Could be you have a problem with a tefillah that is done b'Toras Nedevah and that's why this is not l'maseh? – Yehoshua Apr 6 '13 at 20:44
  • @Yehoshua Consider editing he source into the post. – mevaqesh Jul 3 '17 at 19:03

Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky was asked this question (here) and ruled to re-eat without leaning. He does not provide his reasoning.

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  • Should this answer be accepted without any reasoning? – Yehoshua Dec 23 '12 at 11:43
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    @Yehoshua Not my decision, but it doesn't matter, because the OP hasn't been seen in a long, long time. – Double AA Dec 23 '12 at 18:56

This is not a Psak:

I will assume that if you are up to Matzah or later when your Rebbi Muvhak walked in then he clearly is not there for your Seder. If that is the case, he clearly is not at the same table. According to the Rema in OC 472 5 even if you were eating your matzoh in the first place you would be required to lean. Pri Hadash says you may not lean in such a case. And MB quotes Pri Migadim as saying that it is better to get his permission.

However, here we are talking about making up the incorrectly eaten matzoh. According to Rem"a, you should definitely eat it leaning.

I believe that even according to Pri Migadim, since this is a make-up for what you were not yotzei before (because at that time you definitely had an obligation to eat it while leaning and now you must correct that) then the concern that PM has for those opinions that require permission is flipped: The Rem"a holds you are obligated now, even in the presence of your Rebbi Muvhak, to lean. This eating is a make-up for when you should have leaned. So you must lean without his permission.

According to Pri Hadash you would not be required to lean and it would be like making up Minha Amidah after Rosh Hodesh by Maariv without Ya'aleh VeYavoh because you missed Yaaleh VeYavoh at Minha.

It sounds like it could be an Ashkenaz / Sefardi split on your question.

If my assumption is wrong, and your Rebbi sits down at your table, I am trying to figure out the reality as to how one would find himself in such a situation. This sounds suspiciously like the type of case that the Ba'alei HaGemara would close with a resounding "TEIKU!"

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His first eating was improper. He had to show cheirus and he did not. He must redo the mitzva.

The second eating is being done properly- not showing cheirus because of moreh for the rebbi.

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Wait until he leaves and lean in his absence. He's heading for the door anyway. This was just a brief visit.

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    He is in for the long haul I would appreciate answers without humor – SimchasTorah Apr 11 '11 at 2:44

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