I saw this happen this morning: the minyan got to Kaddish d'Rabbanan and started, but the reader had accidentally turned a couple pages later to Kaddish Yatom, realizing the mistake only after going past where "al yisrael" should have been. A Kaddish Yatom is (I understand) valid at that place (as a substitute for d'Rabbanan), but the reader intended to say d'Rabbanan (and that's what the minyan was expecting).

I remember hearing (when learning Tractate B'rachot) that if you start to say a b'racha and accidentally say another instead, you have to go back and do it again. (I don't remember if this depended on other factors, like timing.) And according to this answer if you are in the middle of saying Shalom Rav when you should have said Sim Shalom you go back to the beginning of the b'racha, but if you only realized after you don't have to repeat. So there is precedent for going back to the beginning and starting again.

A kaddish isn't a b'racha. Specifically, it doesn't include the divine name. That might make a difference. And the two kaddishes are the same for about the first half, unlike the Shalom Rav/Sim Shalom case.

So if you realize your mistake while reciting the kaddish as in the situation I described, where you intended one and started to say another, do you go back to the beginning, or go back to the point of divergence ("al yisrael"), or just continue (changing it to Kaddish Yatom though that wasn't your intent)? Or some other possibility I missed?

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    After the minyan ended somebody said to me "you should ask this on that Q&A site you're always talking about". :-) Jan 7, 2016 at 21:15
  • I'm surmising that a "larger" Kaddish in place of a "smaller" one should be fine but not vice versa. Kaddish Derabanan includes all the parts of Kaddish Yatom (with an extra word in Oshe Shalom) plus an extra paragraph. So, IMO, if you said that in place of Kaddish Yatom, it should be fine, but not vice versa, b/c you're missing something. I'll see if I can research this, but , I'm not sure who would discuss this scenario,
    – DanF
    Jan 8, 2016 at 2:34
  • @DanF AFAICT everything after Daamiran Bealma is just customary. "Chatzi Kaddish" is really "Full Kadish" and everything else is bonus material. As long as you got the main part right you're probably fine.
    – Double AA
    Jan 8, 2016 at 12:41

1 Answer 1


The Kaddish d'Rabannan is one of the seven kaddishes that are obligatory like is found in Shulchan Aruch HaRav, Orach Chaim, 55:1.


The particular text of Kaddish d'Rabbanan is said in response to the public recitation of a part of the oral Torah. Based on Sotah 49a, since the destruction of the Temple, the world endures because of the recital of Kedusha in Uva l'Tzion and the Y'hei Shmei of Kaddish d'Rabbanan.


The function of the Shaliach Tzibbur, in general, is to recite for those who are unable so that they can answer "Omein".


And in the case of Kaddish and Kedusha to recite for the entire Tzibbur. Like is found in Shulchan Aruch HaRav, Orach Chaim, 125:1

The Kaddish Yatom is minhag, while the d'Rabbanan is obligatory.


Like with an individual, if the Shatz makes a mistake, they are required to go back and repeat. Like is found in Shulchan Aruch HaRav, Oruch Chaim, 126:1


Based on it being obligatory and the level of sanctity, it would seem to require going back to the point of error, not accepting the completed Kaddish Yatom as a substitute. But the Omein, Y'hei Shmei would not require being repeated since the error occurred after that point.

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    "The Kaddish d'Rabannan is one of the seven kaddishes that are obligatory like is found in Shulchan Aruch HaRav, Orach Chaim, 55:1." ??? What? It is not listed there! The seven listed there are 1) after yishtabach 2) after shacharit tachanun 3) after uva letzion 4) before mincha amida 5) after mincha tachanun 6) before maariv amida 7) after maariv amida
    – Double AA
    Jan 10, 2016 at 15:01
  • The wording is 'אחר סדר קדושת ובא לציון׳'. The Kaddish shalem, with 'titkabel', directly after saying Uva l'Tzion is going on the Shemonah Esreh prayer. The Kaddish d'Rabbanan is the completion after the seder of Uva l'Tzion. Jan 10, 2016 at 15:35
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    ??? The Kaddish after Uva Letzion at Shacharit is a Kaddish Shaleim (not Kaddish Derabanan) in all the Nuschaot that I'm familiar with at least.
    – Double AA
    Jan 10, 2016 at 19:25
  • That's correct. And the one that follows 'after' the seder of kedushat Uva l'Tzion is Kaddish d'Rabbanan. Jan 10, 2016 at 23:17
  • I think I understand the confusion. The half Kaddish after the Amidah is not the Kaddish that fulfills the obligatory Kaddish after the Amidah prayer. The one that fulfills the obligation is the Kaddish shalem. That is why 'Titkabel' is added. It is the petition to accept the prayer. It is the same function for all the prayers. The obligatory Kaddish after the Amidah is the one that has 'Titkabel'. Jan 10, 2016 at 23:22

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