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It has been stated elsewhere on here that the laws of the Torah are eternally binding on all Jews (e.g no chametz on Passover, shake the 4 species etc.), is there anywhere that discusses whether other material in the Torah that is more "hashkafah" based (e.g "Ain od Milvado") is also eternally binding to be accepted/believed?

Another example although it's from a Talmudic teaching based on Tehillim, in Chulin 7b it says: "a person does not stub his toe unless it was decreed upon him on high."

This basically falls under the first principle of faith of the Rambam (i.e G-d's hashgacha), such that according to him one that does not believe in it has no share in the world to come.

How is it known that this is still applicable today?

  • Just curious -- is there reason to believe that it isn't? – rosends Dec 3 '15 at 18:04
  • So you're not asking whether they're universally agreed upon. (The answer to that in all generality is of course No.) You're asking only whether those who do agree they were true maintain that they'll remain true forever. Am I understanding you correctly? – msh210 Dec 3 '15 at 18:05
  • @msh210 not sure what your question is. In the Torah it's clear that it says "Ain Od Milvado." In the Talmud it's accepted as still correct (Tractate Avodah Zarah i think). – jj2 Dec 3 '15 at 18:36
  • @Hugh, oh, got it, you're referring to just the phrase "en od mil'vado" in the Pentateuch, not any of the various understandings of that that people have had over the years since. So you want to know whether phrases in the Pentateuch have to be accepted, irrespective of their meaning. Now am I understanding you correctly? – msh210 Dec 3 '15 at 18:57
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    God hasn't changed whether or not He has a nose in the last 3000 years. Similarly any theological claim is the same. You don't need a principle of faith to teach you that. Essential properties of God are immutable by definition. – Double AA Dec 7 '15 at 2:57
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Rambam's 13 principles of faith number 9. The Torah is relevant and applicable for all times. How we understand and apply this to our lives is important to understand which is why we are told in perke avos aseh lecha rav

  • can you source this answer please? AFAIK Principle #9 is that the Torah we have today is the same as the Torah given to Moses, and that it won't change, I'm not questioning it's authenticity or truth at the time it was given. – jj2 Dec 3 '15 at 21:51
  • We have a Mesorah whichis our unbroken chain that leads back to when the Torah was given to us originally – Dude Dec 3 '15 at 21:54
  • @Hugh 9th principle is that the Torah will not be nullified or replaced. You are asking that maybe it won't be nullified but it just won't be true anymore? What would that even mean? – Y     e     z Dec 4 '15 at 1:45
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    @Hugh So what does it mean that none of it will be nullified, given that it doesn't say "forever" explicitly by most of it? Sounds like most of it is impossible to nullify according to your definition, making that a rather pointless claim. – Y     e     z Dec 4 '15 at 2:23
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    @Hugh This seems like a silly definition of "nullified" - if it is no longer true, then it is nullified. If the Torah becomes irrelevant because it is no longer applicable, that is what it means to be nullified. – Y     e     z Dec 4 '15 at 4:38
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The Rambam in the 8th principle writes that the entire Torah, down to the last detail, including dates and events, are the direct word of G-d:

שהוא כולה מפי הגבורה... ושהוא [משה] במעלת לבלר שקורין לפניו והוא כותב כולה תאריכיה וסיפוריה ומצותיה... הכל מפי הגבורה והכל תורת ה' תמימה טהורה קדושה אמת

It is entirely from the "mouth" of the Almighty, and [Moshe] was at the level of a scribe, that you dictate to him and he writes all of it, the dates and stories and mitzvos... all of it is from the "mouth" of the Almighty, and it is all the Torah of Hashem, whole, pure, holy, true.

and therefore every letter (or word, depending on which translation you go with) of the Torah contains unfathomably deep Divine wisdom:

אלא כל אות שבה יש בה חכמות ונפלאות למי שהבינו ה' ולא תושג תכלית חכמתה

Every word in it contains wisdom and wonders to whomever Hashem grants understanding, and the entirety of its wisdom cannot be grasped

So given that every letter/word of the Torah contains Divine wisdom and truth, it stands to reason that those Divine truths will remain eternal truths, and this applies to every word of the Torah. All of the material in the Torah is not just arbitrary conventions - it is all expressions of Divine wisdom.

  • This isn't answering my question though, I'm in total agreement with all of this, my question here is for example the verse "Ain od milvado", I'm not questioning that it was totally true/accurate when it was given over, but rather if/where it is written that it is still true now in the same way that for instance the mitzvahs are still obligatory. – jj2 Dec 4 '15 at 4:25
  • @Hugh My last paragraph was dedicated to the fact that it would remain eternally true. – Y     e     z Dec 4 '15 at 4:34
  • I'm not doubting that what you said there is true, but I'm not seeing proof that it doesn't just mean it's true/divinely wise/accurate in its time – jj2 Dec 4 '15 at 5:07
  • @Hugh How do you know it wasn't only true when the Torah was given that mitzvos would apply forever? Maybe that changed afterwards. When it was given, it was true that they would last forever, but apparently in your mind truth can change. – Y     e     z Dec 7 '15 at 4:12
  • JJ2, In reading through the comments and responses, it seems you are trying to build a conceptual fundamental foundation for some other underlying question. In other words, there must be some relevant and applicable reason you are asking this question. So what is your real concern, and can you give a concrete, relevant and applicable example of what you are trying to get at and why? – Lawrence Voltz Dec 12 '15 at 17:41
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It seems the basis for you're question is that although we know of the rambams 9th principle, that the torah shall not change, you still want to purpose that it can become null. To which i ask if it was given for forever than becoming null is a change! The source that the torah and all that is included in it was given for forever see dvarim 12-1.G(and kiddushin 37a) If you're question is if a hashkafic matter is included in the torah see pirush rabenu yona on the first mishna in avos that anything that you need to know in order to do a any one of the mitzvas was also given at sinai. (see sefer chosen yeshuas that goes thru why most areas of science was given at sinai for this reason) see igros moshe volume aroch chaim 4 chapter 49 for a lengthy elaboration as to how all hashkafic matters are included in the torah that was given at sinai, and that it was given forever!!!

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