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Removal before Musaf, some wait until after Kaddish, some don't. Why wait? Is there a source for this?

Some do not 'wind up' the rezuas but wait until after amidah. Is this because it creates a hafsokoh between kaddish and amidah? If so, if you whip them off before kaddish there's plenty of time to put them away before the shliach tzibur starts amidah.

Some elderly gentleman once pointed out in shul that if you don't wind them up but leave it till after amidah, you should cover them up out of respect?

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The reason we take off our tefillin before mussaf is

(1) because many say in the kedusha of mussaf, "Kesser Yitnu Lecha", and therefore we need not be wearing the "kesser" of tefillin. (Or I heard once that perhaps it is disrespectful to say "Kesser Yitnu Lecha" while we are wearing our own "crowns" of tefillin.)

(2) Even for those who don't say "kesser etc." in the kedusha, since we try to treat Rosh Chodesh somewhat as a Yom Tov, at least while we say mussaf (which is memorial to the korban mussaf brought in the Bais Hamikdash), we take off our tefillin beforehand.

I have only ever seen people take off their tefillin after kaddish, and it seems this is the proper procedure, since one should have his tefillin on for all the Kaddishes said by the chazzan. Perhaps, though, some people feel they may take them off early as per reason (2).

However, we try not to create a long gap between kaddish and mussaf, and therefore we do not wrap the tefillin until later. In many places, the gabbai or chazzan bang on the amud or bimah to signal everyone to start mussaf, since everyone should begin together.

See Taamei Haminhagim.

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  • Thanks for the reference in the Mishnah Brurah. He quotes the Elyiahu Raboh who seems to say that tefillin should be removed after Kedushas Uvolezion, before Yehi rozoin ie before kaddish, so as not to cause a delay between kaddish and musaf.
    – Raffy Van der Vaart
    Mar 9, 2011 at 11:45
  • Acc ording to the PriMegaddim quoted by the Taaamei Haminhagim, hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=41247&st=&pgnum=68 , it seems the purpose of the Kadish is for everyone to know when to start musaf. So there is no issue of interruption, just to let everyone know when to start which is accomplished by the bang. This does not give us a reason to not wrap the Tefillin and let them sit unwrapped in disgrace. There are many who have the minhag to wrap the tefillin and then the Hazzan bangs, taking care of the Pri Migadim's concern of signaling the beginning of mussaf.
    – Yahu
    Mar 10, 2011 at 5:29
  • The Magen Avraham there is worried about hearing 4 kaddishem from the chazzan, not all. As most shuls say a kaddish before psukei dizimra, 4 is accomplished before uva letzion. Additionally, most achronim understand that 4 is a typo and it should be three ensuring that everyone should be finished with their kaddish quota before uva letzion (After Yishtabach, Hallel, Leining). Thus according to everyone the ideal time nowadays is before the kaddish after uva letzion to ensure little interruption between that kaddish and Mussaf.
    – Double AA ♦
    Dec 1, 2011 at 22:38
  • seforim.blogspot.com/2006/03/…
    – Double AA ♦
    May 9, 2016 at 14:27
  • @Yahu if the point of kaddish is to announce when to start and the chazzan is going to bang, why say the pointless kaddish at all? That makes no sense.
    – Double AA ♦
    Jul 29, 2022 at 19:23
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Rav Binyamin Tabory said once in a Shi'ur that he personally takes off his Tefillin "early" - during UVa LeTzion - in order to avoid the problem of leaving his Tefillin in a heap (which he said was disrespectful - I think he called it a Bizayon, but I'm not 100% sure) during Musaf.

He did not cite any sources other than RJB"S, but he felt it was not necessary to wait until after Kaddish to remove them, and he felt more strongly that it was inappropriate to wait, because of the likelihood that they will not be treated properly when one is in a rush to keep up with the Sha"Tz.

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  • You can link to the audio and quote or summarize. Even if you could upload the audio here, it would still be best to quote or summarize in the text.
    – Isaac Moses ♦
    Mar 9, 2011 at 16:35
  • I have it on CD - CD!!! - from a Shi'ur from 5760. I ripped it onto my iPod back when that was new, but as far as I know it doesn't exist anywhere online. I suppose I could upload it somewhere and then link to that. I'll have to recharge my iPod and listen to it again to be able to quote it exactly.
    – Seth J
    Mar 9, 2011 at 17:26
  • Yeah, sorry. M.y doesn't provide its own media repository right now.
    – Isaac Moses ♦
    Mar 9, 2011 at 17:53
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Although I don't have a written citation, I personally heard from Rabbi Haskel Lookstein that since the purpose of the half-kaddish is to introduce Mussaf, the Rav felt that tefillin should be removed before kaddish. Rabbi Ari Enkin also describes and agrees with this approach, citing the Siddur Baal Hatanya.

In Halachic Positions of Rav Joseph B Soloveitchik volume 3 (section 4 pages 9-10), Aharon Ziegler states:

The minhag has been universally accepted that we take off our tefillin right after the shaliach tzibbur recites the kaddish following UVA LETZION, right before the silent shemoneh esrei.

although this is not cited in the Rav's name.

However, he goes on to relate the Rav's insistence that enough time be provided to properly wrap the tefillin before Mussaf, as it would be "a far greater violation" to leave the tefillin unwrapped than to leave them on.

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    Check out Nefesh HaRav (or its sequels) for a source.
    – Double AA ♦
    Nov 1, 2016 at 7:03
  • @DoubleAA Updated with a partial citation
    – Yosef Weiner
    Nov 1, 2016 at 7:34

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