1

Here is the whole of Siddur Tefilla Sfas Yisrael

http://opensiddur.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Tefiloh-Sefas-Yisroel-Open-Siddur.pdf

On Page 212 Shabbat Mincha, Alainu

It has the end of Alainu - fine

V’ne-emar, v’hayah Adonai l’Melech al kol haaretz.
Bayom hahu yih’yeh Adonai echad ush’mo echad.

But then no Kadish Yatom

If I look in the artscroll or singers, it has kaddish yatom after alainu

The siddur is supposed to be quite a serious siddur, and delineates classical ashkenazi minhag, so if it's missing something there must be a reason, e.g. everybody changed and added it(unlikely), or maybe it's there and i'm not seeing it. Or maybe one town said it and one didn't.. ( in which case i'd like details)

So that'd be my question.. Is it there, if so, where and if not, then why is it not there?

4

Pages 506-517 (LI - LXII) at the end of the link discuss the historical evolution of Kaddish and the relevant points vis a vis the "Minhag Ashkenaz" in the siddur.

In relation to the possukim after Aleinu, on page 517: (And p84 internal siddur numbering, p93 pdf reader numbering, end of weekday Mincha) it says

According to Minhag Ashkenaz, the possukim "kakatuv bitoratecha" and "vine'emar" are not considered part of Aleinu, and need not be said, even in a non-Minhag Ashkenaz synagogue. The possukim should be said however, if one wishes to recite Kaddish after Aleinu. (Notwithstanding the fact that reciting Kaddish after Aleinu is quite problematic according to Minhag Ashkenaz).

Page 507 states clearly that the purpose of Kaddish is to separate between parts of tefilla, so saying it after Aleinu during mincha and ma'ariv is unnecessary (as you aren't separating between two parts of tefilah).

In particular, see page 508, where it says Kaddish is only said after reciting portions of Tanach or possukim, that Aleinu wasn't originally said daily (and the possukim afterwards aren't officially part of Aleinu), and that the practice to recite Shir Mizmor La'asaf(psalm 83) daily (which would justify having kaddish afterwards) was instituted after the ga'onic period and therefore isn't "standard."

It also states that the possuk recited MUST BE JUXTAPOSED to the recitation of kaddish, which is why the possukim in the middle of Aleinu don't count to justify a new kaddish. This is also why we commonly recite "Rav Channanyah Ben Akashya omer" at the end of a shiur - in order to enable the legitimate recitation of kaddish

They hold that the additional Kaddish at the end of davening is a recent innovation and, as such, is outside the "Minhag Ashkenaz," potentially falling under the rubric of "bracha levatalah/she'ayno tzrichah."

  • 1
    Since when is Kaddish a bracha? – wfb Jul 27 '15 at 19:23
  • You write "and the practice isn't to recite Shir Mizmor La'asaf(psalm 83) daily " <-- I see it after shir shel yom on p68 of tefilo sefas yisrael opensiddur.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/… And moreshesashkenaz.org/mm/publications/MadrichEnglish.pdf page 52 says "Shir Mizmor LeAsaf (Tehillim 83) is recited every day of the week after the Shir shel Yom, and is followed by Kaddish Yasom" – barlop Jul 27 '15 at 20:31
  • Also, even in that tefillo sfas yisrael siddur see p212 opensiddur.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/… there is tenach in/after alainu, fine not at the end, it greys out kakatuv betoratecha and venemar, but it still has a pasuk in the first paragraph of alainu, after kakatuv betoratoh it quotes tenach "veyadata hayom vehashevota el levavecha kee adoshem hoo haelokim bshamayim mimal veal haaretz mitachat ain od" "you shall know and take to heart this day that the l-rd is G-d in heaven above and on earth below there is no other" deut 4:39 – barlop Jul 27 '15 at 20:51
  • @barlop I'm not saying it's not in there, but the language on page 508 suggests it's not standard, since it wasn't implemented at the time of the ga'onim. See the page 507 that states that the purpose is to separate parts of tefilah and 508 where it says that it MUST BE JUXTAPOSED TO A POSSUK (otherwise a shiur wouldn't require a separate possuk at the end to enable kaddish, since presumably at least one possuk would have been quoted in the middle). – Isaac Kotlicky Jul 27 '15 at 20:57
  • @barlop I suggest that you read the file you linked in the OP. It really does contain all the information you need to answer your question. – Isaac Kotlicky Jul 27 '15 at 21:03
3

Have a look at page 84 (siddur numbering; page 93 of that pdf file) - the end of weekday Mincha - of the same Siddur, and you shall find your answer:

According to Minhag Ashkenaz, the pasukim "כַּכָּתוּב בְּתוֹרָתֶךָ" and "וְנֶאֱמַר" are not considered part of עָלֵינוּ and need not be said, even in a non-Minhag Ashkenaz synagogue. The Psukim should be said, however, if one wishes to recite Kaddish after עָלֵינוּ. (Notwithstanding the fact that reciting Kaddish after עָלֵינוּ is quite problematic according to Minhag Ashkenaz).

Similarly on page 64 - towards the end of שחרית you will see that there is no קדיש after עלינו, nor after מעריב on page 97, nor after any of the Tefilloth in this Siddur, for the same reason.

As to why reciting קדיש after עלונו is quite problematic according to מנהג אשכנז, I have no ready answer, and there seems to be no more discussion on this in the Siddur.

Possibly because of the note added at the end of page 64:

עלינו is only recited just before leaving the synagogue.

So - taken literally - nothing should be said after עלינו - and this is the Minhag in Sefardi (Eidot HaMizrach) Minyanim.

  • 1
    I think it has to do with Aleinu not being Pesukim. (I know it has some in it, but it's basically a Piyut.) – Double AA Jul 27 '15 at 14:49
  • @DoubleAA - especially since this Nussach doesn't have the pesukim at the end. – Danny Schoemann Jul 27 '15 at 15:12
  • But how do they resolve saying aleinu after kiddush levana, which perforce must be outside? – Isaac Kotlicky Jul 27 '15 at 17:25
  • @IsaacKotlicky They don't say it then. See page 253. – Double AA Jul 27 '15 at 17:44
  • @DannySchoemann what pesukim are at the end with other nusachs? – barlop Jul 27 '15 at 18:42

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