Upon leaving a mourner (when one visits him / her during shiva), one says:

המקום ינחם אתכם בתוך שאר אבילי ציון וירושלים

"May G-d comfort you among the mourners of Zion and Jerusalem"

Since during Tish'a B'av, we are ALL mourners of Zion and Jerusalem, would or should we say this to any / everyone we meet?

I have not seen this done, so perhaps this is inappropriate or maybe there is some other reason why this is not commonly done. If this IS done, who / what group of people have this minhag?

  • 5
    Ashkenazim, at least, don't usually offer consolation (נחם) on Tisha b'Av till the afternoon, as we don't give consolation (including המקום...) to mourners while the deceased is still in front of them.
    – Double AA
    Jul 24, 2015 at 18:13
  • 1
    @DoubleAA Wow! I didn't think of this excellent angle! If you can find a source to support this, please post as a great answer! "Hamakom Yenachem" to you (and us).
    – DanF
    Jul 24, 2015 at 18:19
  • @DoubleAA True, but I haven't seen anyone say "Hamakom..." in the afternoon, either, AFAIR.
    – msh210
    Jul 24, 2015 at 19:14
  • 3
    @DoubleAA I remember seeing a comment that when two people are sitting shiva, one mourner does not say hamakom to one of the other mourners. The prayer of nachem in mincha is a request to Hashem by the mourner. As a result, we should not say hamakom to a fellow mourner. Since I do not have a source, I am leaving this a comment. Jul 24, 2015 at 23:14
  • 1
    Similar question I asked based on this one: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/105499/16354 Jul 11, 2019 at 19:27

1 Answer 1


I have never seen or heard of this minhag, nor does there seem to be mention of it on the internet. Here is one possible justification/support:

According to the Or Zarua (Hilchos Tish'a B'Av, end of 415) and Biur Hagra (OC 559:3, both sources are cited in this article about Nichum Aveilim on Tish'a B'av), for the entire 9th of Av, we have the status of "Meiso Mutal Lefanav", or "Onenim", meaning we have not entered Shiva yet, but rather have the status of one who is mourning over a relative who has not been buried, about which the Halacha is clear that we do not offer any words of consolation. Note, however, that many disagree with this categorization.

I also now noticed that Nit'ei Gavriel here cites the Maavar Yabok that the purpose of saying "Hamakom..." is for the soul of the deceased, in which case it is irrelevant on Tish'a B'av unless one is speaking to one who is mourning over a relative.

  • I would accept this answer except for one "caveat". It seems that the categorization of onein becomes aveil after mid-day on Tish'a B'av, as one is permitted to wear tefillin, then.
    – DanF
    Jul 11, 2019 at 18:31
  • Isn't an oinen permitted to sit on regular chairs and allowed to don regular shoes?
    – chortkov2
    Jul 11, 2019 at 18:38
  • @DanF I would recommend reading the full article if you can, and see my added answer... Jul 11, 2019 at 18:42
  • @chortkov2 I think they understand that the rules of Tish'a B'Av apply fully, just that the level of mourning is as if the deceased is still in front of them, but it is a hard chiluk to make. I would recommend reading the article if you can for their actual words. Jul 11, 2019 at 18:46

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .