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For those younger readers who may be unfamiliar, (call me an "A.K." if you wish) pie throwing was a common comedic scene and activity in several movies and T.V. skits such as The 3 Stooges (nyuk nyuk).

There are several places that are trying to re-create these "older" films and comedy bits using pie throwing.

Can a Jew participate in these pie throwing scenes if the pie cream is non kosher? The idea of these scenes, of course, is not to eat the cream pies, but, inevitably, when you are hit with a pie and have cream all over your face, you are quite likely to lick it off just to clean yourself a bit, or some of the cream will probably go into your mouth, anyway as soon as you are hit with the pie.

In short, the kavana is not to eat / taste. Does this lack of kavana nullify any problem of eating non-kosher cream?

Additional Aspect added:

What if the crust contains lard? With the cream top, would this now be an instance of basar b'chalav (meat & dairy) as lard comes from pig's fat? Or is there no such issue as pig is non-kosher?

(FYI - Mr. Goldwyn and Mr. Mayer are no longer alive to direct this film, so there is no chance to request the director to buy only kosher pies!)

  • I'd read they usually use shaving cream these days, which would be permissible. – Shalom Jul 9 '15 at 18:11
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Assuming the pie is actually edible and tasty (as opposed to shaving cream), if he is licking it and swallowing it, that is what the halachik definition of eating is. That his intent is otherwise should be irrelevant, as we find that even misasek (unintended action) by chalavim (forbidden fats) and arayot (forbidden sexual unions) is chayyiv (obligated) a korban (offering), shechen neheneh (for indeed he derived pleasure; see e.g. Sanhedrin 62b; see also: http://www.dafyomi.co.il/sanhedrin/insites/sn-dt-062.htm). Assuming the pie has a pleasant taste, it is certainly no better than toothpaste which is itself at best controversial, and indeed none of the leniencies invoked by toothpaste would apply to a completely edible and non-kosher pie, meaning that there should be no room for leniency if the pie will be tasted. (Additionally, even if there is no concern that the actor would taste the pie [nor that he might lead others to assume that he did, or that to do so is permissible], there might still be a problem of benefiting from the pie if it might be basar b'chalav [meat product cooked with dairy]. On the other hand, it could be argued that most cream pie recipes do not contain any truly non-kosher ingredients, so the only really plausible issue is afiyat akum which is not an issur hana'ah [prohibition even regarding indirect benefit]. There is no issur hanaah if the "meat" [e.g. lard] is from a non-kosher animal (since the biblical prohibition of basar b'chalav only applies to kosher behemot [cattle, sheep, and goats]).

  • Mos such pies use shaving cream or the like (according to articles on movie making that I have seen) rather than real edible pies This would make a difference in the analysis. – sabbahillel Jul 9 '15 at 17:59
  • @sabbahillel Agreed. I believe that is what is used today, as it's cheaper and perhaps, easier to use; maybe easier to clean. But, I asked my question intentionally using the assumption that the ingredients were edible. – DanF Jul 9 '15 at 19:15
  • Thanks for the editing and the detailed analysis. Meat & dairy combo, is probably not a concern, here, as it's a pie crust and cream. Perhaps, now that I think it over, the crust might contain lard, in which case, the actor couldn't even throw a pie back! Am I making a correct assumption on this aspect? – DanF Jul 9 '15 at 19:19
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    @DanF Lard is from a pig. To my knowledge, there is no issur hanaah if the meat is from a non-kosher animal (since the biblical prohibition of basar b'chalav only applies to kosher behemot). – Loewian Jul 9 '15 at 20:28

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