Can someone explain what is the issur of zera levatala? If we learn it from er and onan, it should apply to those who do zera levatala to stop from performing peru u revu, and should also apply to those to dont have tashmish or marry at all. On the other hard, it shouldnt apply to youngsters who society wont let them get married, or a married man who did his mitzva already, or his wife doesn't want at the moment or is nidda. I heard all the answers from the Zohar; i want a halachic answer.
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2Close as unclear? What kinds of sources are you looking for and what do you want them to say?– Double AA ♦Jun 25, 2015 at 16:36
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3@IsaacKotlicky I dont know where your getting that the Rambam carte blanch allows zera levatala when it's shelo kedarka. It's not clear that is the case maybe he only allows biah shelo kedarka bug not letting out. Or only derech arai once or twice.– Shoel U'MeishivJun 25, 2015 at 16:59
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1judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/44727/…– YishaiJun 25, 2015 at 17:30
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3@Mefaresh The rambam permits it unconditionally because he says so explicitly אשתו של אדם, מותרת היא לו; לפיכך כל מה שאדם רוצה לעשות באשתו, עושה--בועל בכל עת שירצה, ומנשק בכל אבר שירצה, ובא עליה בין כדרכה, בין שלא כדרכה, בין דרך אברים. He doesn't recommend for Hashkafic reasons excessive pleasure-seeking in general and this is no exception.– Double AA ♦Jun 25, 2015 at 17:37
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3@user3548935, if you pasel anything that dares mention the Zohar, throw out your Shulchan Aruch. Seriously, it quotes the Gemara in Nidda 13b which is the source, and How Igros Moshe learns the relevant Suggia. Really nothing to do with the Zohar's concept.– YishaiJun 26, 2015 at 16:01
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1 Answer
The Tosefos Rosh to Niddah 13a writes that it is forbidden because of bittul peru u'revu, nullification of reproduction. He asks why it still applies to one who has fulfilled peru u'revu and answers that even after fulfilling the requirement of reproducing a man still continues to fulfill the mitzvah as a result of ולערב אל תנח ידך, which the Gemara in Haba Al Yevimto understands to mean one should continue to have children even after one already has children.
וא"ת ומ"ט וכי תימא משום דלא מיפקדי אפריה ורביה אנשים נמי לאחר שקיימו לא ליסרו ומיהו י"ל אנשים לעולם מיפקדי משום דכתיב בבקר זרע את זרעך ולערב אל תנח ידך, כדאיתא בפרק הבא על יבמתו
Rabbeinu Tam in Sefer HaYashar says that it is from peru u'revu and actually says that someone who has fulfilled peru u'revu does not have a prohibition of zera levatala:
ג נשים משמשות במוך ' פי. צריכות לשמש במוך מפני הסכנה כדמפרש ואזיל. וליכא לפרש מותרות לשמש במוך דאפי' כל הנשים נמי דהא לא מיפקדי אפרייה ורביה כדאית' בשילהי הבא על יבמתו. ואי משום חובת הבעל דמיפקד ליכא למיפרש. חדא דלאו הכי משמע לישנא. ועוד דאפי' קיים מצות פריה ורביה נמי קאמר.
One cannot explain that the Gemara is saying that they are allowed to use a contraceptive, since all women are allowed to, as they aren't obligated in peru u'revu. And if one would say it is because of the obligation of the man, that is untenable ... since the Gemara is discussing even one who has fulfilled peru u'revu
The obligation of peru u'revu is not obviated because one has not gotten married yet, nor is it obviated when one's wife is a niddah. (Biblically, one could marry multiple wives and the fact that one is a niddah says nothing about the husband's obligation being on hold.)
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Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. Jul 1, 2015 at 1:03