2

I've seen a few questions on this site relating to meals on shabbat, but I believe my question is unique from them.

At the shul I go to for shabbat, they eat one bread meal in Friday night, and one bread meal shabbos afternoon, right before shkia. In the middle, they make kiddish over mezonos delicacies right after musaf.

Can someone explain to me if this is halachically accurate? I thought that one is supposed to eat 3 meals on shabbos, with (at least) the first two consisting of bread. The Rabbi at this shul said that the middle mezonos meal counts as the second meal. What is his halachic basis for this, if any? What are the sources which discuss what the 3 meals of shabbos must consist of?

  • Does everyone go home to have their own lunch meal? – Shoel U'Meishiv May 31 '15 at 14:24
  • Some do, but not most. The shul is actually on the same property as a house where the rabbi and his family stay on shabbos, and there they don't have a separate lunch meal. – bluejayke May 31 '15 at 14:47
  • So I can't speak for this particular Rabbi. But mezonos is a enough to be called "kvias seuda" in order to make Kiddush, depending on the amount of mezonos was eaten. But the minhag is in many places to have a Kiddush after Davening usually featuring cake crackers kugel and the like. But everyone goes back home and has a regular meal with lechem mishne two loaves of bread. – Shoel U'Meishiv May 31 '15 at 14:57
  • And they have a third meal later also? – bluejayke May 31 '15 at 15:03
  • 1
    @cham many shuls have pretty substantial kiddushes featuring cholent, meat, kugel, baked goods, liquor, etc. – Daniel May 31 '15 at 15:45
1

Tosefos to Pesachim 101a s.v. טעמו מידי writes

נראה דהיינו טעימת לחם כדאמרינן בפ"ג דשבועות (דף כב:) כדאמרי אינשי ניטעום מידי ואזלי ואכלי ושתו ואם מועיל מיני תרגימא להשלים ג' סעודות שבת כמו בסוכה היינו דוקא בסעודה שלישית אבל לא בסעודת ערבית ושחרית שהם עיקר כבוד שבת

[For kiddush b'makom seudah] they specifically ate bread... and if מיני תרגימא (could be fruit, could be mezonos of the 5 species - Tosefos on 107b s.v. מיני תרגימא) and the like work to complete the 3 meals of Shabbos, that is specifically for the third meal, but not the first two, which constitute the primary honor of Shabbos.

The Tur O.C. 273 quotes the Ga'onim:

ודוקא שאכל לחם או שתה יין אבל אכל פירות לא

Specifically if he ate bread or drank wine, but not fruit.

Although there is an excluded middle in the Geonim (skipping from bread to fruit and leaving mezonos unaddressed), mezonos would seem to be included as being at least as good as wine. The Mogen Avrohom 273:11 explicitly makes this point, and writes that mezonos is more qualified for seudas Shabbos than wine is.

The Mishneh Berurah 273:25 cites this Mogen Avrohom. However, in the Be'ur Halacha there s.v. כתבו הגאונים, he cites from ספר מעשה רב that the Gra held that specifically bread makes a Shabbos seudah.

So there is room to go both ways - some opinions hold that mezonos (and even wine) is enough to fulfill the seuda requirement, and some hold that specifically bread is required.

  • It seems from the tosefos cited that fruits /mezonos only fulfill the obligation for the third meal.did I understand this wrong? – bluejayke May 31 '15 at 15:45
  • @user2016831 no, you understood correctly. It's one of the opinions. – Y     e     z May 31 '15 at 15:46
  • So then that still doesn't account for the second meal consisting of mezonos only – bluejayke May 31 '15 at 16:03
  • @user2016831 Right, according to Tosefos you could not have the second meal consist of only mezonos. That is why I also cited the Mogen Avrohom, which is cited l'halacha by the Mishneh Berurah. It is a machlokes, and I cited both opinions. The practice of the Rabbi at this shul is in accordance with the Mogen Avrohom. However, there are other opinions, and perhaps one would best have bread to satisfy all opinions. As always, consult your Rabbi for practical application. – Y     e     z May 31 '15 at 17:33
  • @user2016831 Out of curiosity, is there anything you find lacking in this answer? – Y     e     z Jun 2 '15 at 21:43

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .