There are various commentaries that allow eating pat paltar, see here and here for a more extensive discussion.

Going with the opinion that pat paltar is allowed what questions would one have to ask at a baker in order to ascertain that the bread/cake/pastry (etc.) is indeed kosher and fine to eat?

1 Answer 1


Practically today, there are enough complications in the process and ingredients (e.g. the release agent on the baking sheets) that you really want a kosher-certifying agency who knows what they're doing to go in and look around the place.

There are rumors about what sorts of bread are okay in France -- are they baked at a bread-only boulongerie or a cakes-too patisserie? -- depending on ingredients and government regulation. If you're going to France, ask a local rabbi there.

  • I don't think this answers the questions. Despite the complicated nature of the issue I am asking what one should ask at a baker if you hold (as many do, see sources) that it is ok to eat pat paltar. Furthermore, very often there aren't complications with ingredients. Many battei din allow you to purchase products without a hechsher provided that the ingredients are ok e.g. cereals, yoghurts, pasta etc. Bread is rather UNcomplicated in terms of ingredients, and often in specialised bakeries, there aren't many (if any) actual non-kosher ingredients in the majority of products.
    – bondonk
    Commented May 20, 2015 at 10:10
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    @bondonk I didn't see anything in your sources allowing an assumption that todays paltars have this leniency. All the rules quoted from the gemara and shulchan aruch are ONLY when the assumption based on common practice was that no palter ever put anything nonkosher in their bread. Considering how much egg and fat grease and who knows what else the average bakery has today, one should never ever buy bread that does not have a hechsher.
    – user6591
    Commented May 20, 2015 at 14:15
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    @user6591 What's wrong with eggs? Did they never use Chelev or lard in bread before, but now they do? What changed regarding grease?
    – Double AA
    Commented May 20, 2015 at 21:12
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    @user6591 your comment doesn't address the question. Halacha allows us to isolate parameters, whether you agree or disagree with eating pat paltar is besides the issue. To reiterate: if you were to go to a non-Jewish baker and, after checking their ingredients you find that they do not use anything that is not kosher, is this enough, if not, then why not, otherwise, is there anything else that one needs to ask.
    – bondonk
    Commented May 20, 2015 at 21:44
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    @user6591 if your answer is that pat paltar only applies when a Jewish mashgiach is present please write this as an answer. I find it hard to believe that this is what commentaries intended when permitting pat paltar
    – bondonk
    Commented May 20, 2015 at 23:48

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