What bracha does one make on wheat gluten, a.k.a. Seitan? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seitan

I'm aware of this opinion saying it's Shehakol http://www.yeshiva.co/ask/?id=113

I'm curious though if there are other opinions.

For instance see here https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=JwdMVYqGIYO1yQTOyICABw&url=http://www.jewishpathways.com/files/Soups_and_Cereals.pdf&ved=0CCAQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNFKqo5rUKF_b2LTbXyv1mZcmlulMQ&sig2=rFjvgJUNxASkD1_NjlDBgg page 6 footnote 15. It seems to imply that wheat gluten would in fact be Mezonos if not for the fact that in that case it is functioning as a binding agent and therefore battul.

  • This has been a longstanding question of mine. Is Mezonos a question of source only, or of "type?" May 8 '15 at 8:40
  • I'd guess Satan gets a ברוך ממית המתים?
    – Double AA
    Nov 17 '16 at 22:55

Rabbi David Cohen of the CRC touches on this question in a shiur, starting at 41:15 in the recording:

But the bigger shayla, which I don't have the answer to, is – do the people who make seitan have to be mafrish challah. If they meet the other qualifications for lechem – I'm not sure that they do – I'm not sure if they meet the other qualifications. But assuming they meet all the other qualifications, are they mechulin(?) on hafrashas challah, just for that stuff?

In other words, what did they do? They took a batter of flour and water – they didn't really do this, but sort of what they did was take flour and water, they washed it for an hour, and then, they make bread out of it. Okay, now, to us it looks like they made something different out of it, they made this thing called seitan. But basically, what's flour and water – that's what started off as flour and water. Now, it did start off in a factory—

[a question is asked]

Right, except that they didn't. But they didn't make the dough. They bought gluten. They bought it from somebody else. Somebody else took flour, wash the flour until they kind of just left just the gluten behind, and sold it to these guys. So these people, they start off with this thing that's—


Well, for the bracha it's probably easier just mez[inaudible]. Maybe possibly hamotzi. Maybe – so, the same question, which is – Could we say this thing – if they made it into lechem, would we say that this thing is, basically it's flour and water. The fact that we pulled out one element of the flour – what's the difference? Basically, it's flour and water. OK – we are just fancy and we know that this element we call this and – it's not like bran, that's physically a separate piece – it [inaudible] the same piece. Or do you say, no, come on guys, there's a reason why they call it seitan. If you take flour and water, it doesn't taste like seitan. This is something special to it.

Okay, actually, we were lucky, that the first company we certified wasn't Jewish, we didn't have to think about hafrashas challah.

[Question: if you make bread out of just the subin(?) part, what's that?

Of course it doesn't count. That's the din, of course it doesn't count.

[back and forth, difficult to make out and transcribe]

Right, but the difference is that the bran is a physically separate piece from it, and this is not physically separate – this is only, sort of like we imagine it

[back and forth]

Right, it's a din in Orech Chaim. I don't know what the din is—what the bracha is.

Transcription mine. I put a (?) after the two instances of non-English words that I wasn't sure about. It sounds like the bracha on seitan itself is either mezonos or hamotzi (I realize that, added to the shehakol answer you're already aware of, does not narrow the field much), and that if you managed to make it into bread things would be even less clear.


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