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This may sound like a trivial question, but I'm curious.

Many Chasidim do not eat gebrokts during Pesach. So all the Pesach cakes are made from potato starch which makes them shehakol. And they only eat shmurah matzah which is hamotzi. Is there anything during the week of Pesach that they can make the bracha borei min mezonot on?

Someone in my neighborhood wants to make Se'udah shlishit on Shabbos during Pesach in shul to accommodate Chasidim. He doesn't want to bring matzot because it requires washing, and the shul kitchen is closed so there's really no convenient sink to wash. (He is averse to using the rest room sink.) He also insists that there be mezonot at Se'udah Shlishit. What can he use to accommodate the Chasidim?

Edit based on comments

Let's assume that the Chasidim do not eat any kitniyot either in whole form or as a processed product. So, that would exclude rice cakes / matzot.

  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Monica Cellio Mar 13 '15 at 14:55
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    They might be able to accommodate a lot of chasidim by having words of Torah instead of food, based on the Zohar about מיני תרגימא being equivalent to תרגום. – WAF Mar 18 '15 at 2:17
  • I know this question is about food, but one of the drivers is the washing problem. You can solve that with pitchers of water and bowls, even at larger events (you just need more). – Monica Cellio Apr 19 at 20:00
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(Rice-flour matza should work — but I don't know of any on the market. I suppose you can make some. Consult your rabbi before attempting it.

Beyond that, and more practically speaking,) I can assure you from personal experience that those who don't eat gebrochts or kitniyos or egg matza will never say "m'zonos" on the first seven days of Pesach. (Afaik everyone eats, and certainly the widespread custom among non-gebrochts-eaters is to eat, gebrochts on the eighth day of Pesach outside of Israel.)

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    Although a significant number of those who do not eat gebrochts say shehakol on rice... – Yirmeyahu Mar 12 '15 at 0:34
  • @Yirmeyahu So how about a rice/millet matza? – Double AA Mar 12 '15 at 3:19
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    The Chayei Adam says explicitly you can mix kitniyot with water and bake in under 18 minutes. But [my observation] nobody does this today. – Shalom Mar 13 '15 at 1:10
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    Why is rice Matza considered Mezonos and not Shehakol? – DonielF Apr 18 at 12:09
  • @DonielF Indeed, according to a fair number of opinions that I've seen recently (I am working currently on a shiur dealing with oat matzot, and it delves into the 5 grains. So there was a "sidebar" regarding rice, in general) rice can never be considered 'mezonot' as it doesn't become chametz - one of the requirements for "bread". – DanF Apr 18 at 13:46
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My advice for Shalosh seudos is to eat dates or drink wine less than 3 reviis (see biur halacha) since the Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 208,17 says they are filling and one would be Yotzei sayng Birkas hazon on them since they satisfy the the eater (though of course the chassidim should say Me'ein Shalosh after). According to the Rambam (see Kesef mishne hilchos brochos 1,2), the Bahag , the Rosh ,Rashba and Tur hold that Birkas me'ein Shalosh is min haTorah when satiated (to the exclusion of the Smag and Rabeinu Yonah hold Me'ein shalosh is derabanan) . So this can partially fulfill the questioners requirement of having "Mezonos," i.e satisfying food. Ths is why if one said brocho of Mezonos on dates or wine (only a small by mistake its not Levatolo).

Alternatively if nothing else available just use regular fruit for shalosh seudos Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim and Rema 291,5

If the chasidim are unwell or old they can eat Matza Ashira and make mezonos (Rema 462,4) in spite of their Minhag.
The Darkei Moshe Orach Chaim 453,2 brings the opinion Maharil, (so paskens the Minchas Yitzchok(III:138:2),Avnei Nezer (373 & 533) and Maharsham (I:183) ) that derivatives of Kitniot are prohibited to eat so if the oil is prohibited how much more so the rice cakes themselves even though they are baked under 18 minutes they are prohibited on Pesach for ashkenazim like the questioner pointed out. Though if Chasidim are unwell (e.g celiac), eating kitniot Hechshered rice cakes would be permitted and they can say Mezonos specifically on the rice products(S.A O.C 453,1 in the Mishna Brura).

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Anything that falls into pas ha ba bekisnin will be mezonot if eaten less than a kvius seuda. See Shulchan Aruk 168.

The Mishna Brerura 168/59 discusses products made from flour that was made from bread. That is you make flour and water bread or matza, and then make them back into a flour. That would be matza meal. You then use this flour and mix it with fruit juice (not water), dont bake it but cook it otherwise, and the item produced does not look like bread (tor lechem) the bracha according to all except the Magen Avraham would be mezonot. See the Piskei Teshuvot 168/17 for further discussion, and other ways to make a mezonot with matza meal.

So a cake made with matzo meal and a majority of oil or honey even baked is mazonot (end of Mishna Berura 168/59)

EDIT - Define Gebrochts

This answer on stackexchange gives a good run down of why gebrochts is water only. I would add below 463/2 of The Shulchan Aruk Ha Rav that only water is the issue: שולחן ערוך הרב אורח חיים סימן תסג סעיף ב

השבלים או החטים עצמן שנקלו בתנור או באור אם טחנן לא יבשל הקמח שלהם במים שמא לא נקלו באור יפה ויבואו לידי חימוץ בתוך המים קודם שיספיקו להתבשל שם ואפילו אם הקמח עצמו נקלה בתנור לא יבשלנו במים שמא לא נקלה יפה (ויבא לידי חימוץ) ויש מתירין לבשל קמח הקלוי לפי שחום האור שולט בו יותר ממה ששולט בהחטים ויש לסמוך על דבריהם בדיעבד שאם עבר ועשה ממנו תבשיל יש להתירו בהנאה או להשהותו עד לאחר הפסח:

Even if there are other people who wont have any liquids, chabad, or a large portion of chabad would qualify for chasidim who do not eat gebrokts yet have a case where they would make a mezonot, thus answering the question. The question is not are there people who will not make mezonot.

Is Honey a problem of liquid for gebrokts? The MB says cooked in honey.

But aside from that, find some non liquid binder on Seasoned Advice and you wont have the issue of liquids. Some type of recipe like 1/3 matza meal, 1/3 ground almonds, 1/3 potato starch would get the beracha of mezonot for everyone?

  • Hi Jon, welcome to Mi Yodeya, and thanks for the answer! – רבות מחשבות Apr 3 '18 at 11:33
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    Isn't this the gebroktz recipe? I'm pretty sure people who don't mix matzah meal with water also don't mix with other liquids. Of course I may be mistaken, but either way, if your point was to that making matzah meal with liquidsother than water is fine, you may want to clarify that in your answer. (I didn't down vote. Just making a point.) – user6591 Apr 3 '18 at 21:45
  • This is one question I felt uncomfortable downvoting. You've provided interesting info that I have to read in O.C. esp. about the matzah meal aspect. However, this answer doesn't answer my question, as I have stated that my premise is regarding those that don't eat gebrokhts. Matzah meal is exactly that. – DanF Apr 3 '18 at 21:46
  • @user6591 Your comment overlapped mine as I was typing it. You made a good point, here. However I am unaware of any Hassid that would eat matzah meal mixed with juice. They would still consider that gebrokhts even though, "technically" it isn't. B"N, when I meet my friendly neighborhood Satmar Chassid, I'll ask him about his minhag and why this is included in gebrokhts. – DanF Apr 3 '18 at 21:49
  • @DanF I would assume it's based off the situations where mei peiros is machmitz as found in siman 462. – user6591 Apr 3 '18 at 21:57

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