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Every week my wife and I have this problem. My wife cuts the potatoes and onions, adds the barley, beans and meat. But I spice the cholent! I always claim I'm the one who made it because we pasken taa'm k'ikar. Furthermore, I believe from the sugya Uman Koneh Bsvhach Kli that although a non spiced cholent is edible, nonetheless I aquire the cholent through my improvement.

I also believe I have a proof from tevilas keilim, that if a non jew made the majority of the kli, but a jew gave the last notch, the kli doesnt not need tevilah.

However, She claims she made it because she did all the work.

How can we amicably come to peace and settle this once and for all?
Please base answers only on Torah sources


This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.

closed as off-topic by msh210 Mar 14 '17 at 21:41

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11 Answers 11

15

The word cholent (טשאלענט) is numerically equivalent to 469; the same amount as לא טוב היות, that is it isn't good for man to be alone. This hints that the yesod of cholent is marital peace free of strife. Accordingly, although taam k'ikar is a lomdish argument which ought to trump an emotional one, you ought to concede that it is her cholent.

10

It turns out that you don't actually need to resolve this issue. The Mishna in Shabbos (2:7) lists three things that you need to say to your wife on erev Shabbos:

שלושה דברים צריך אדם לומר בתוך ביתו ערב שבת, עם חשיכה--עישרתן, עירבתן, הדליקו את הנר.

Have you tithed? Have you made an eruv? Have you lit the candles?

The Talmud there (34a) explains:

צריך למימרינהו בניחותא

You need to say them calmly.

Apparently, everything else either need not be discussed, or is open game for arguing and shouting matches.

In terms of eating it, you should also fight for it, as the Ramban says on Bava Metzia 2a:

כל דאלים גבר הכא נמי קאמר דידי היא שאני עשיתיה

[the case in which you should] fight it out is when each one says "It's mine because I made it"

Shabbat Shalom!

7

The Levi'im and kohanim took their jobs in the temple in rotation and sometimes by lottery1, and thus no one person could claim sole responsibility for the avodah. Similarly, you and your wife should either take turns or draw lots each week to determine who will do which jobs.

Lest you say that chopping the vegetables and putting in the barley etc is women's work, remember that בְּעִצָּבוֹן תֹּאכְלֶנָּה, כֹּל יְמֵי חַיֶּיךָ does not end with the harvest.

1 Mishnah Yoma 2:2

  • 1
    This answer was posted within 20 seconds of this one, which makes the same suggestion. Baruch shekivanteich! – Isaac Moses Feb 19 '15 at 19:26
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    The lottery you mnetion is called a payis. That word may (speculation) be derived from the Hebrew word for appeasing, "לפייס." – Isaac Moses Feb 19 '15 at 19:35
  • It seems who should do which job isn't at issue here. I understood the question to imply that the roles are inflexible. – Daniel Feb 19 '15 at 20:17
  • @Daniel it sounds like a habit more than immutable roles to me, but perhaps the OP will clarify. – Monica Cellio Feb 19 '15 at 20:18
  • 1
    Which kohen offered the korban? Answer: they all did. – Monica Cellio Feb 19 '15 at 20:29
5

God made the cholent.

The law, found in Shulchan Aruch Orach Chayim 276:5, is:

הכל חולים אצל הקור

Everyone is [considered] sick when it comes to the cold.

As the purpose of cholent is to have hot food to warm you up on a cold Shabbat day, this law dictates that Halacha sees it, universally, as a remedy.

Regardless of whose hands were involved with the preparation of a remedy, the true credit for it always goes to God, as God tells us in Shemot 15:26:

כִּ֛י אֲנִ֥י יְהוָ֖ה רֹפְאֶֽךָ ...

... for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

And as the patient's prayer in Berachot 60a says:

כי אל רופא נאמן אתה ורפואתך אמת לפי שאין דרכן של בני אדם לרפאות אלא שנהגו ...

... for You are the trustworthy healer, and Your healing is true, as it is not the way of humans to heal, but just their habit.

Both the husband and the wife should give full credit for the cholent to God. Not only will this be placing due faith in their Creator, which is especially appropriate on Shabbat, but this will also bring peace in the home, also especially appropriate on Shabbat.

  • Thats very shver. For we say hakol byedei shamayim chutz mtzinim upachim. Warm things are nit in the hands of G-d! – Shoel U'Meishiv Feb 22 '15 at 9:03
4

The mitzva to make cholent is a mitzva on the man. This is clear from its exclusion of the list of mitzvos for women in Bameh Madlikin. It is also clear from the mesorah going back to biblical times for the man to make cholent indicated by the verse מי אפוא הוא הצד ציד ויבא לי ואכל refering to the cholent that Yaakov made for Yitchak (this is numerically equivalent to cholent).

Therefore, since the male accomplishes the mitzvah it is appropriate to view him as the primary cholent-maker and the wife as a מסייע-לדבר מצוה.

3

Your wife is mainly responsible for making the chulent. The mitzvah of Shabbat cooking is mainly the woman's responsibility, according to many opinions. Even if you don't follow this rule, in your case, your wife assembled the main chulent ingredients, so she did most of the work.

One caveat, here - I assume that your wife is eating the chulent, too after you spiced it, right? Even if she complains about the taste and that you spiced it, it doesn't matter, because one of the spices is Shabbat, and anyone that likes Shabbat spice loves the taste of chulent.

If someone asks you who made the chulent, you're allowed to lie for the sake of "Chulent Bayit" (Shalom Bayit).

  • How do read the gemara in kidushin that tells of different amoraim personally preparing the shabbos food – Shoel U'Meishiv Feb 19 '15 at 19:55
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    @Nafkamina - And hwo do you know if all these Amoraim were men? – DanF Feb 19 '15 at 20:01
  • Is the fact they are all called Rav enough? Kiddushin 41a Rav Safra, Rava. I don't know in today's feminist climate maybe that's not enough proof – Shoel U'Meishiv Feb 19 '15 at 20:07
  • @DanF In Aramaic, as in Hebrew, verbs have gender. So there's no room for ambiguity. – nafg Feb 19 '15 at 20:10
3

There is no Nafka Minah from knowing who actually made the Cholent.

The only Nafka Minah is the one from the Meiri that queries abstract things with no Nafka Minah, and says Nafka Minah LeInyan Kiddushin. If one is Mekadesh in Isha on condition of one Tzad, that is the only Nafka Minah.

In that case, the only case of querying this question is if one was Mekadesh his wife on condition that is considered that he made it. Once she agrees to marry him and consents to that side of the agreement, she cant later on say that she did it. At least, not if she doesnt want to Mevatel the Kiddushin.

3

The gemara in Bava Kamma says that if one person dug a bor 9 tefachim, and another person deepened it to 10, and an animal fell in and died, the second guy is chayav since 10 tefachim is ro'uy to kill, but 9 is not.

In this case, it would depend: Is an unspiced cholent called a cholent or not? If so, your wife had already made the cholent by the time you come by to spice it, so it's attributable to her. If not, by spicing the cholent, you've made it, and it'll be attributed to you.

1

Switch around one week and you cut the potatoes and onions, adds the barley, beans and meat. And let your wife spice the cholent! Then see if you are still in disagreement. If you are then the only Eitza is to leave the spices out of the Cholent.

  • 1
    This answer was posted within 20 seconds of this one, which makes the same suggestion. Baruch shekivanta! – Isaac Moses Feb 19 '15 at 19:26
1

This is actually the subject of a dispute in the Talmud Yerushalmi (Rosh Hashanah 1:8):

רבי יוסי אומר מכיון שהתחיל במצוה אומרים לו מרק...ר' יודן קפודקייא קומי ר' יוסה...מכיון שהתחיל במצוה אין אומרין לו מרק.

R. Yosei says once one began a mitzvah we say to him "soup"... R. Yudan of Kapudkya before R. Yoseh [said]...since he only began the mitzvah we do not say to him "soup."

The dispute in the Yerushalmi appears to be whether the person who begins the mitzvah of soup (this refers to cholent--it would appear that according to the Yerushalmi, the mitzvah is to have soupy cholent) is considered to have created the soup or not. (See commentators for alternative explanations.)

0

I'll add another answer for this year....

You mention spicing and acquisition. The way to resolve this problem is to listen to exactly what your wife says, because she's not "mincing" words. And yes, the pun is intended, here!

I've learned from almost every female cook that when you cook for Shabbat (I tend to be the cook in my home, but my wife tells me what and how to cook it, and I listen. Except for food that I totally eat myself.), it's not about what YOU like - it's about what everyone else will like, or, rather, what your wife believes that everyone else will like. It doesn't matter if the "everyone else" means the kids or your Shabbat guests. The point is, that both you and your wife have to cook the chulent to please everyone else, even if the two of you don't like the taste of the chulent yourself.

So, here's how you find out about the acquisition question. If you even attempt to spice the chulent and your wife says to you, "You want to spice the chulent that way??? Don't do that! NOBODY likes it." But, you insist, and your wife says, "Fine! You want the lousy chulent with your stupid spices? You can HAVE IT that way." At that point, you own the chulent. Otherwise, neither you nor your wife made the chulent. Your guests and / or kids did.

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