In a situation where by you taking or using someone else's property or service they are not losing from your usage, such as when you borrow someone else's gym-membership card without permission, can you take advantage לכתחילה? Would it be more lenient by non-Jews?


2 Answers 2


Tosfos Bava Basra 12b says it is obvious that it is only bedieved.

Besides that, it is very clear in the Talmud that this does not apply to a commercial operation (such as a gym), where what is an irrelevant loss in a private setting is relevant, as the use wears out the property. So one cannot just sneak into a hotel and sleep there, even though the room is vacant anyway. So in this case, even bedieved it is a problem.

Now if you have paid for a gym membership, you just wanted to use the friends card because yours wasn't available, that might be a closer question.


In this case the Gym is losing money by you not signing up, so there is no Lo Chasar over here, and it is Geneiva.

  • Question was changed after I posted my answer. Question was originally regarding using someone else's Gym membership. Jan 30, 2015 at 14:54
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    I think the question implicitly assumed that the person would never use the gym if they had to pay, contrary to your opposite assumption that they would pay to use the gym if that was the only way they could use it.
    – Fred
    Jan 30, 2015 at 20:03
  • @Fred: It definitely did not sound like that to me. However even in that case I believe it is Geneiva. Feb 1, 2015 at 14:01
  • @Fred: Every additional person, causes machines to wear out, machines to be unavailable, etc. Feb 1, 2015 at 14:39
  • That depends on what equipment he is using and how crowded the gym is. What if he is using free weights that don't wear out from use, and, the whole time, there is at least one equivalent spare set of weights that is also available and an empty area/bench that is available? What if there are many spare sets of weights and the gym is nearly empty? I'm not saying he should necessarily do this, but I also don't think it's necessarily a case of "וזה חסר".
    – Fred
    Feb 1, 2015 at 20:05

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