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According to Sepharadim, women are chayavot in havdalah. Can they also be motsi men? Looking for a Sephardic answer.

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    Do you have any reason to assume they can't? Please edit to clarify. – Double AA Nov 20 '14 at 15:47
  • See Shulchan Aruch 296:8 with Mishna Brurah 34,35,36 there is a shitta which holds doraisa,drbannan and a shitta that they are patur and that's what they discuss – sam Nov 20 '14 at 18:29
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The Yalkut Yosef (Shabbat 296:13) holds that women are equally obligated for the mitzvah of havdalah as men are, and can therefore say all of the blessings and drink from the wine to fulfill the mitzvah for themselves. In the footnote for this halacha, R. Yosef adds that this is like the law for kiddush (as hazoriz stressed). Although the Yalkut Yosef does not discuss reciting for a man, the link to kiddush implies as much.

In Yalkut Yosef 271:14, after introducing women's obligation for kiddush in the same language as that of havdalah, R. Yosef writes:

ולפיכך הנשים מוציאות את האנשים ידי חובת קידוש, הואיל והן מצוות על הקידוש מן התורה כמותם. ואף אשה שהתפללה ערבית של שבת יכולה להוציא ידי חובה איש שלא התפלל. ומכל מקום משום צניעות נכון שהאשה לא תוציא אנשים ידי חובת קידוש אלא כשהם מבני בית

[Since men and women are obligated equally by the Torah in the mitzvah of kiddush], a woman has the halakhic ability to recite kiddush for men. A woman who prayed Arvit can even fulfill the obligation for a man who didn't pray. Nevertheless, for modesty reasons it is proper that a woman not recite kiddush for men, unless it is within her immediate family.

For a more direct approval, see the teshuvot here and here, which both rule that while Ashkenazi women should preferably not fulfill the mitzvah for men, it is allowed for Sephardic women.

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shulchan aruch orach chaim 271.2

Women are obligated to recite Kiddush even though it is a positive commandment dependent upon a time factor /which women are usually not responsible to keep/. For /the two commandments of Shabbos,/ Zachor (“Remember the Shabbos”) and Shamor (“Keep the Shabbos day”) are equated to each other; /therefore,/ women who are obligated in the commandment of Shamor (keeping /from transgressing the laws of Shabbos/) are obligated to the commandment of Zachor (remembering /the Shabbos by reciting Kiddush at its onset/). /Women, therefore,/ may recite Kiddush for men, thereby freeing them of their obligation, since they have the same Torah obligation /to recite Kiddush/ as /men/.

edit: shulchan aruch harav (not for sifardim) 271.6 says that if someone asked you should not tell them that they can do it (woman to make kidush for men) so that it should not come to Disparagement of Mitsvot shulchan aruch orach chaim 296.8

Women are obligated in Havdalah just as they are obligated in Kiddush, but there is /an authority/ who disagrees.

i was thought that if the shulchan aruch (maharan bait yosef) brings a law (stam) and then brings another opinion (yesh) the ruling is like the law (stam)

edit: from google search In learning Shulchan Aruch, we have a general principle called "Stam v'yesh, halacha k'stam" - when there is a general view and a second view using the language of yesh omrim ("there are those who say"), the halacha follows the general opinion.

so it seems that for sefardim, yes a women can be mosi men in havdalah since they have the same obligation as by kiddush (as men) that they can be mosi

ps i heard from a Moroccan Rabbi that pious people should be strict like the yesh opinion, so in this case they should not be yoitzai.

pps you need to ask a rabbi since what i did here might be forbidden since i am deciding from a "mishna" with out talmud

Stam viYesh Halacha k'.....?

  • Are you sure about Stam and yeish? – sam Nov 20 '14 at 20:17
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  • The principle of Stam v'yesh halacha k'stam is itself a subject of dispute. According to Rav Ovadia Yosef and his sons, when you see a stam v'yesh in the Mechaber, you hold like the stam completely, and don't have to be concerned about the opinion of the yesh at all. According to the Zivchei Tzedek, the Ben Ish Chai, and Kaf HaHayyim, if the yesh is more machmir, you have to be machmir for the yesh l'chatchilah, but you can rely on the stam b'diavad. (Note that every one of the poskim I just listed is originally from Bagdhad. I don't know how Moroccan poskim hold.) – Chanoch Nov 21 '14 at 1:17
  • I'm looking for a source that clearly states that it's allowed. – 147zcbm Nov 21 '14 at 2:18
  • @147zcbm shulchan aruch harav (not for sifardim) 271.6 says that if someone asked you should not tell them that they can do it (woman to make kidush for men) so that it should not come to Disparagement of Mitsvot – hazoriz Nov 21 '14 at 19:00

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