One can do Kiddushin through a Shliach. Can one do Nisuyin through a Shliach?
Can one acquire a room and have the Shliach bring the bride into it?
asked Nov 19 '14 at 22:07
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3Wouldn't that be an issur of Yichud? (besides the other structural problems with the suggestion). – Yishai Nov 19 '14 at 22:23
According to the GaRNa"T at the beginning of Maseches Kesubos, there is a school of Rishonim which holds that Nisuin is not a "transaction" (קנין) but is rather the initiation of their living together as husband and wife (תחילת הנהגת אישות). According to this school of thought, at least, one would not be able to send a shaliach, as Nisuin is not an "act of transaction" that someone could do for you, but is the beginning of life together, which couldn't be done by proxy.
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2+1 I remember hearing a Bachur ask his rosh yeshiva 'if kidushin with kesef and shtar can be done with shlichus, why not biah?'. – user6591 Nov 20 '14 at 0:25
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@user6591 Ain Shliach lidvar aveirah. Since she is an aishes ish, the biah cannot be done by a shaliach but must be done by the individual. – sabbahillel Nov 20 '14 at 0:48
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@user6591 Someone actually asked that??? Are you sure he wasn't joking? .....all I can say is, "Wow. Just wow." – MTL Nov 20 '14 at 1:28
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@Shokhet listen, he was a 16-17 year old kid being handed a complex sugya and not getting the intricacies. Once I'm telling funny kedushin beis amud alef stories from yeshiva, I heard another kid once saying 'he can be mikadesh her by giving her some kessef or giving her a shtar or giving her a biah'. – user6591 Nov 20 '14 at 1:33
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1@user6591 Rabbi Rakeffet tells the story of some bochur who asked that to numerous teachers, who threw him out of the classroom. He answered the kid respectfully -- in fact, R' Chaim Brisker suggests that kessef and shtar are general mechanisms that effect all sorts of halachic statuses; thus the proxy clause goes along with them. Biah is a halachic mechanism unique to marriage, so the general rule of proxies does not apply. – Shalom Nov 20 '14 at 12:29
I fail to understand how so many people are willing to accept a vaguely quoted garnat before they even take a look at a MISHNA in Kesubos.
Gemora ketubot48 a-b states:מתני" לעולם היא ברשות האב עד שתכנס לחופה מסרה האב לשלוחי הבעל הרי היא ברשות הבעל הלכו שלוחי האב עם שלוחי הבעל הרי היא ברשות האב מסרוה שלוחי האב לשלוחי הבעל הרי היא ברשות הבעל - She remains (betrothed) in the the fathers domain until she enters the house (translation based on gemora succa 2b) of her husband. once the father gives her over to the husband she is in his domain (i.e nesua). an alternative scenario is if she goes with her fathers emissaries as well as the husbands emissaries she is still in her fathers domain. however if the fathers emissaries left her to be taken by the husbands emissaries she is in her husbands domain.
So we see that one can make a shliach for nissuin just like you can make a shliach for kiddushin.
There is a question posed in the gemoro with regards to teruma whether she eat or not as she has not yet reached his house even though she is nesua. we conclude that according to the mishna acharona that we don't allow her to eat until she reaches the husbands house. With regards to everything else i.e Hapharas nedarim (annuling vows), permission for a kohen to bury her, chiyuv chenek(strangulation for adultary as opposed to stoning that she would incur when she was betrothed), and his right to inherit her she is fully married.(see tosfos uShmuel)
