When we change to saying "mashiv haru'ach" one is required to recite the shmoneh esrei again if he is unsure if he made the insertion. This site points out that one becomes habituated after 30 days (or 90 repetitions). This site makes the halacha explicit:

The Mishna Berura (ad loc.) explains that one says.... Rav lehoshia Mashiv Haruach U’morid Hageshem, 90 times. He quotes the Chasam Sofer (Responsa Vol. I 9:20) as well, who opines that one repeats it 101 times, but only if one has said it less than 90 times would he repeat the Shemoneh Esreh.

Therefore, the practice is for someone to go home and repeat the phrase until he passes the threshold of repetitions so he no longer has to repeat the davening.

While we only make this change for 10 days, we replace "ha'E-l hakadosh" with "hamelech hakadosh" and require one who does not say the proper version to repeat the davening.

Can one go home and say "hamelech hakadosh" 90 (or 101) times on Rosh Hashana so that if he is unsure during the aseret yemei tshuva whether or not he made the switch, he can assume he did?

2 Answers 2


In Shulchan Aruch Harav siman 582 sief 3 the Baal HaTanya writes that even if you went home and said 90 times hamelech hakadosh and then were uncertain if you did it right in davening, you still have to recite over shemoneh esrei, and he explains that this is different than mashiv haruach because when you practice saying the brochoh you can't say Hashem's name because of brochoh livatoloh, so when you end up saying it in davening once you said Hashem's name you will go back to what you're used to saying and say hokeil hakadosh as opposed to hamelech hakadosh.


I recall seeing that this is impractical as the entire phrase must be said, and here that phrase is a bracha, which cannot be said multiple times. And saying it by replacing the actual sheim Hashem with the word Hashem would not count as having said the phrase in its proper form that many times.

  • wouldn't you only have to say the part that changes? In the cae of mashiv haru'ach, the whole thing changes. But in this bracha, you could say just the 2 words which constitute the change. Or I could say "hamelech hakadosh ata chonen" and be covered for weekday davening as my luach says I can say "rav lehoshiya mechalkeil chayim" when we switch back, 90 times so the transition seems to be the necessary part.
    – rosends
    Oct 2, 2014 at 0:35
  • You have to start with the words immediately before it, which you can't. Saying ata chonen immediately afterwards wont help.
    – user6591
    Oct 2, 2014 at 0:43
  • why do you have to? According to the second site I linked to, " Thus, according to Rema (Orach Chayyim 114:9), in order not to utter a blessing in vain, it is proper to repeat thia [at some time earlier in the day] 90 times – “Mashiv Haruach U’morid Hageshem.â€" only the 4 words of the change, not any words before it.
    – rosends
    Oct 2, 2014 at 0:51
  • 1
    @Danno thats true. But if I remember correctly there were those who were opposed to even mashiv haruach being that he would be saying the words beforehand and there would be no shigra d'lishna. But for those who do rule one can say just mashiv haruach, it is still better as it is its own phrase. So as long as you start the phrase from its beginning, its fine. But in this case you can't start from the beginning.
    – user6591
    Oct 2, 2014 at 1:50
  • @Danno I learned that you say "mechayeh meitim atah rav l'hoshia mashiv haruach umorid hagashem".
    – Scimonster
    Oct 2, 2014 at 7:06

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .