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The standardized "Ashamnu" viduy has in it several sins which are between one person and another, for example stealing or giving bad advice.

If someone hasn't asked forgiveness from the victim, does one still say those segments of the standardized viduy?

  • there might be a ben adam l'makom aspect there in addition to the ben adam l'chvero . just a guess. – eramm Sep 28 '14 at 21:18
  • The standardized viduy (that I'm familiar with) is in plural. Is your question if nobody appeased their fellows? – Double AA Sep 28 '14 at 21:20
  • @eramm I assume you are correct, but the halacha is that teshuva for the ben adam lemakom doesn't work until after the ben adam l'chaveiro has been done. – Y     e     z Sep 28 '14 at 21:20
  • @DoubleAA You're assuming like 1 explanation of how you can say viduy for sins you may not have committed. I know of at least 3 others, in which the plural is not assumed to be because of arvus. – Y     e     z Sep 28 '14 at 21:22
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    @YEZ Latent assumptions are always best made explicit in the question. – Double AA Sep 28 '14 at 21:23
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Rambam lists confession as an aspect of t'shuva (Yad, T'shuva chapter 2) and possibly of independent value (chapter 1). He notes that t'shuva is insufficient for interpersonal sins and one must appease the wronged person (end of chapter 2) — but that doesn't mean it's unnecessary! (Note also that Rambam's wording "neither t'shuva nor Yom Kipur atone, except for sins between man and God…; interpersonal sins… are not forgiven for him, ever, until he gives his fellow what he owes him and appeases him" makes it sound (to me) like t'shuva is done first.) So it is safe IMO to assume one says the standard confession.

(This is irrespective of any consideration about whom the confession is describing. (It's in the plural.))

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