מונבז is mentioned in Shabbos 68b. I know there were two Kings of this name.
What is known about the Sage of this name?
asked Jun 16, 2014 at 20:55
-
2hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=43958&st=&pgnum=45– Baby SealCommented Jun 17, 2014 at 0:25
-
My guess is that "sage Monobazus" refers to the son of Queen Helena, Monobazus II--Bava Batra 11a has him saying sagelike things...– GaryCommented Jun 20, 2014 at 3:14
Add a comment
|
2 Answers
Munbaz is also mentioned in Sifra Metzorah 1:3, Tosefta Shabbat 9:4 and Shevuot 26b.
According to Rabbi Reuven Margaliyot in "Lecheker Shemot V'Kinuyim BaTalmud", pg. 12, "Munbaz" was the nickname of this individual, called so by the sages because of his particular interest in questions about converts and tinokout sh'nishbu (captive children), because King Munbaz was a famous convert (see @RenatoGrun's answer). He (the tanna) was a student of Rabbi Akiva.
It occurs to me, though, that as there were Jews in Chadayev, the kingdom from where King Munbaz came from, it's possible that this Munbaz (the tanna) came from Chadayev (although that would make him particularly unusual, because it seems that in Chadayev there wasn't strong mitzvah observance and adherence to Chazalic laws), and that either Munbaz really was his name or that he received his nickname because of the famous convert from his country, but this is just my opinion.
It should be noted, however, that Rabbi Mordechai Hakohen in his book בעיני חז"ל (In The Eyes of The Sages), pg. 165-166, brings sources from the Geonim and Rishonim who had a tradition that Munbaz the tanna's name was with a Nun, while king Munbaz was actually called Mulbaz, with a Lamed, but eventually these traditions were lost and only the name Munbaz - for both figures - remained. One such source is the Aruch on Malbaz:
"מלבז [נאמע] (יומא לד) מונבז המלך עשה כל ידות הכלים פי' מולבז המלך בלע"ז מינבז תנא בגמ'"
Translation: Malbaz [a name] Munbaz the King made all of the handles of the vessels, meaning, Mulbaz the King in foreign languages, Minbaz the tanna in the gemara.
Rabbi Hakohen explains per Kohut's annotated edition of the Aruch that the Aruch should be read as such:
"מלבז - מונבז המלך עשה כל ידות הכלים פי', מולבז המלך בל' מונבז תנא בנ'"
Translation: Malbaz - Munbaz the King made all of the handles of the vessels, meaning, Mulbaz the King with a Lamed, Munbaz the tanna with a Nun."
Per such an understanding, there may not be any connection between Munbaz the tanna and Munbaz (Mulbaz?) the King.
-
Josephus seems to identify him as king of Chadiv - sefaria.org/…– DovCommented Dec 20, 2020 at 9:41
-
@Dov I don't see him referring to Munbaz the tanna. I believe there were two Jewish Munbazes - the first, King Munbaz II, son of Queen Heleni and a convert, and the other, a tannaic student of Rabbi Akiva (this detail is important because it seems that Munbaz II and R"A were about the same age, and as R"A only began studying at age 40 and teaching at age 80, it wouldn't make much sense that Munbaz II was the student of R"A.– Harel13Commented Dec 20, 2020 at 9:47
-
I know - sorry I wasn't clear, Josephus seems to be saying that this other Munbaz (i.e. Queen Helena's son) was " מונבז מלך חדיב" and not like your claim that the Munbaz you are speaking about came from there?– DovCommented Dec 20, 2020 at 9:59
-
@Dov Oh. When I wrote "it's possible that this Munbaz etc" I meant the tanna Munbaz, seeing as he shares a name with the King of Chadayev. Thus, we might learn that Munbaz was a Chadayevian name that also commoners had, including the local Jews. I clarified.– Harel13Commented Dec 20, 2020 at 10:04
-
He is Monobazus II, the son of Ptolemy and Bereishis Rabbah 46:10 describes his conversion.
answered Nov 19, 2016 at 3:57
